S1 EP22 | The Experience

Show Notes:

Focus Discussion of the Week:

Before you pack for Vegas, check out our latest episode of Building Perspective! See what we have planned for IBS so you can create your itinerary, and get our insights into “The Experience.” Does your customer experience match up with your vision and your marketing message? Are your salespeople knowledgeable about your product and their competitors? Find out what’s needed for a remarkable experience!

Top Topics of The Week

IBS Speaker Schedule:







Two thought leaders come together to explore all things sales and marketing from their unique perspectives. Each week, Mollie Elkman, Matt Riley, and others from Group Two dive into a focus discussion to talk about the latest trends, changes, and best practices.

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Two thought leaders come together to explore all things sales and marketing from their unique perspectives. Each week, Mollie Elkman, Matt Riley, and others from Group Two dive into a focus discussion to talk about the latest trends, changes, and best practices.

[00:00:00] Matt: It’s not the, he did this amazing job on a sales process, but it was that he had one and that he listened to the issues. My quote unquote pain, cause everybody is buying something because they have a pain in our industry. It’s, they had a life changing event. Right? It was, they got married, they had a baby, they got divorced.

There was a death in the family. They’re upsizing, they’re downsizing. There is some pain involved and we have to understand what that pain is and then deliver an experience that’s going to help them because. They don’t do this every single day.


Hi and welcome to building [00:01:00] perspective with Matt Riley and Mollie open. 

Mollie: We’re here to bring value to you and your team by exploring all things sales and marketing related, 

Matt: all from different perspectives. And today, our focus discussion of the week this week is. The experience. 

Mollie: But first, let’s dive into our top topics of the week.

And this is one of our favorite weeks because it is the week before the international builders show. So we have a lot to talk about. There are so many top topics. Matt, you want to talk about some of your programs? You want me to go first? 

Matt: Yeah, I’ll just, I’ll dive in. So my goodness, we are officially.

One week away. Well, today we’re recording this on Monday. You’re listening to this, at least on Thursday. So we’re basically, we’re one week away from the builder show. every year it is one of the highlights of the year for me. Love getting a this year in Vegas. but love getting [00:02:00] out there and, and really meeting with some incredibly smart people within our industry, being able to share some knowledge, and, and kind of.

Rub shoulders with some really talented people. And, so yeah, so really, really exciting and, can’t wait to get out there, but so our week, golly, Mollie, our weakness for the builder’s show is a little crazy. Like, we’re really, like, our whole team is super busy. How many it, let’s see, how many speakers do we have this year at the builder show?

Let’s count them. Is it seven? We have seven people speaking. 

Mollie: One. Three, four, five, six, wait, it might be six speakers, seven sessions, something like that. I mean, it’s insane. we have a ton going on. The, one of the first things though is sales central. That’s going to be really important. Talking about rubbing shoulders.

I love Matt. You always have these like little sayings that you say and I [00:03:00] always think it’s like the funniest thing cause he says, 

Matt: who says rubbing shoulders? We just call him Matt isms. 

Mollie: Let’s do it. Yes. If, if you want to come rub shoulders with sales and marketing professionals, the place to do that is sales central.

that is in South two 19 and group two is one of the main sponsors. So we’re going to be there all day, every day, and we have a really, really fun, activity going on in there that, Matt, should we tell our listeners, do they get to know in advance? 

Matt: I think so. I think it’s safe at this point. Yeah, go ahead.

Mollie: Okay. They get to know in advance. So what we’re doing is we have a kiosk, and you may have noticed our theme leading up to the builder’s show is really these like old school video games. and the theme is level up. So. In sales central, we’re going to have some of your favorite old school video games playing on our kiosk, and we’re going to have different people challenging two games of Tetris and Pac-Man and all that fun [00:04:00] stuff in between education session so that in between sessions you have a second to come and just.

Take a mental break and play some of your favorite nostalgic games and, you know, challenge someone else in the industry and have a little fun. So we’re definitely going to be enjoying being in sales central and all the education sessions that are happening in there. We have a few that are going on in there.

I’m including that on day one. You have one in in sales central and a another education session. 

Matt: Yeah. So looking forward to that. So on Tuesday, they one at 1245, I’ve got a 60 minute session. It’s called marketing by the numbers skyrocket your sales and marketing ROI with fail-proof metrics. So, I’m sharing the stage with Meredith Oliver.

And a day better from a lasso ECI. So really excited to give that talk. And then that’s, that’s an hour. And then we’re going to kind of do a follow up of the same, much more [00:05:00] casual, interactive of the same talk in sales central at three 45. So essentially, you know, an hour and a half after our talk, we’re going to do really.

I kinda like to say stump the chump. we’re going to get up there, no slides prepared. We’re not going to like give this presentation. It is going to be Q and a real time from the audience. Maybe pull up a few websites, pull up a few marketing, campaigns, look at some stuff and dive in with Q and a from the audience.

So this’ll be. Non PR presentation style. We’ll throw the, throw the Mike around the audience a little bit, get some questions going. It’ll be fun. We’ll see between the three of us up there, Dave and Meredith and myself. I think there’s some going to be some really great knowledge and info for everybody to, to kit to get, and again, just a much more, Informal talk in sales central. I’ve really liked South central because it’s on the floor with everybody. No stage, no big screens. You just get to interact [00:06:00] with people and that’s a lot of fun. 

Mollie: It is a lot of fun. Then we have, two more specific programs going on. So what we have is in 55 plus central, we have how to engage the 55 plus buyer online, and that’s going to be with Allie and Alexis.

they work with 55 plus communities all over the country. That’s at one, and that central is in North two, six one. Any one who really focuses on active adult buyers, that’s going to be a great program. And then we also have Chelsea, our social media director on Tuesday, doing blending quality and quantity, how to strategically grow your office.

Followers on Facebook and Instagram. So that’s a social media specific tech bite. That’s at one 30 in South two to nine. 

Matt: That is going to be a good one too. Tech bites are always fun because you really get to like, this is one to go in there and geek out on, right? This is not this big [00:07:00] picture type thing.

Or Chelsea’s going to be diving into some, some real deal stuff and really kind of nerd out on some social media advertising specifically and how to grow that audience. So it’ll be some really good key takeaways. And then I hope everyone is coming to the nationals on Tuesday night cause too. I’m tired.

Mollie already talking through Tuesday. I know Tuesday is going to be crazy. 

Mollie: Should we tell everyone so we don’t even have time to go back and change. We’re literally going to have to change in the bathroom, either at Caesar’s or the convention center to go to the nationals. So hopefully we look good in our formal wear because it’s going to be crumpled up in a bag all day 

Matt: to day.

Oh my gosh. So nationals Tuesday night, if you’re not coming or if you’re not planning on coming, you should just, I’m sure there’s some last minute tickets. At least check out, check it out, because sometimes they sell that sells out, but check it out if you haven’t. It’s a lot of fun. You get to see the kind of the best in the business and really some.

[00:08:00] Really interesting and cool. Different, you know, all the different awards from marketing and sales teams and OSC . and, and Mollie and I are both up for different awards. We’re not up for the same, Oh, well, we’re not competing against each other. Mollie is up for, well, we actually have three group two’s up for three.

We have best associate website. Right. And in Europe for associate member of the year. and then I’m up for the one to watch. So, that’s really exciting. I know. there’s two other folks that are up for that. will Duderstadt is up for that as well. anyway, I think that just going to be a fun, fun night and an exhausting at the end of the day, cause Tuesday’s super, super busy.

and then we go to sleep and then we’d get up. We’d do it all over, get on Wednesday. What’s happening Wednesday? So 

Mollie: Wednesday we’re back in sales central, all day Wednesday again. And then we have a few programs, going on Wednesday, we have, Chelsea has, what’s the T six ways to connect with young professionals.

So [00:09:00] this is a Y P program that’s going to be in sales central. and we have Adam from, Oh, and Chelsea doing this one. And they’ll be talking about young professionals in the industry as well as how to connect with young professionals from a marketing standpoint. And then immediately after, they’re going to have a challenge of either Tetris or Pac-Man rate right there.

So that’ll be our first challenge of Wednesday. And then later on in the day, Chelsea has reputation management on social media and that is in South two 29, another social media program and one of those where you get like real, you start to nerd out my one piece of 

Matt: tech byte as well. I 

Mollie: believe that’s a tech based one as well.

Now my one piece of advice, if you were going to hear Chelsea, which you all should maybe take a shot of espresso beforehand. She is 

Matt: just to keep up with her energy level 

Mollie: up. Otherwise you are going to be like, [00:10:00] Whoa, what is happening? Because she is like a ball of energy. So, she’s a lot of fun to listen to and learn from.

So I highly recommend that. 

Matt: And, and Mollie, you are going to be rocking out at the sales rally this year. You’re on stage with Mary Marshall, forest, Myers Barnes and Quint liers, and that’s going to be amazing. I can’t 

Mollie: wait. So I’m very excited to be a part of this sales rally and I have never been a part of the sales rally before.

I’m a little bit terrified. I hope some of our listeners will be there. I would love for you to share some love. and yeah, I’m, I’m super excited and I definitely have a lot I want to share. And, being that I’ve never actually sold a new home, I, I put a lot of thought into what I wanted to talk about because my entire life has really been dependent on new home sales.

And, you know, I, I hate using sports [00:11:00] metaphors, but when it comes to marketing, you know, if you think about volleyball, we’re. We set the ball so that the salesperson can really spike it. You like that sports metaphor? 

Matt: Of course you use Braulio 

Mollie: because that’s the only sport I listen. It’s either volleyball or tennis.

So we’re just going to go, right. 

Matt: Oh, that’s true. First world 

Mollie: problems. So, you know, I. I am such a fan of new homes, sales people, and just the conversation and I’m really excited to talk about, just how to cultivate connections and make them stronger. And that’s, that’s my topic for the rally. And then for the first time ever, right after the rally, we’re drinking.

Cause I needed 

Matt: those two days. It is tough for a drink. Yeah. Goodness. 

Mollie: So, yeah. So we’re going right after the rallies, right next door to sales central. We’re going to have some drinks and then we also have some wipey events that you, cause you know who, who we need, we’re not busy at all. We don’t need more on our [00:12:00] agenda.

Matt: No. And Chelsea is up for a Y P award and so that’s going to be awesome for her. And that’s at the Westgate hotel across the street from the convention center. So if you guys, haven’t looked at that yet, it’s super convenient and close to the convention center just to walk across the street. Cause if you’ve been to IBS and you’ve wanted to get in the bus or taxi line leaving the convention center when all the programs are over.

So basically at the beginning of the day, at the end of the day. The line can get long. So I actually, before had just walked over to the West gate or walk down to one of the other casinos and picked up a cab from there instead of waiting in line. But why not walk across and go to the Y P awards and then the party at eight o’clock.

Mollie: Yeah. And apparently I’ve never been to the, to the wipey party, but apparently this is like the party. Everyone says it is so much fun. so I. A lot of the groups, your team is going to be there. I probably am not cool enough to be [00:13:00] there. 

Matt: I’m definitely not cool enough to be at the YPO. And we’re, by the way, I think we’re too,

Mollie: and then, 

Matt: Oh, I 


Mollie: we’ve, we’ve aged out and then, Thursday, again, sales central all day. And then we have another tech. With bill at eight 30 in two 29 where he’s talking about location based marketing for today’s homebuilders. So that’s going to be fun. Learn a little more about geo-fencing and, all those tactics that you really want to get into.

Matt: Yeah. That’s tech bites as well. So that’s going to be another nerd out session of really like technical details on stuff. So if you want to walk away with some really good technical information, Chelsea’s and Bill’s, both sessions that are in tech bites are really, really good to check out. it’s just that kind of forum where it’s, kind of a more that two Oh one three Oh one level [00:14:00] maybe I’d say three Oh one level.

Info as far as the, yeah, 

Mollie: and what we can do, Matt, let’s put this, the link to all of our programs in the notes and that way if you want to add them to your show planner or you want to have them, you’ll just have them write in the notes and if you want to see us, we would love to see you. Sales central is really the key place, so we would love to come talk with you.

Any feedback about. The podcast. We may have a couple of podcasts, goodies to give away to listeners, and, we’d love to see you. 

Matt: Yeah. And we’re also going to be doing an episode of building perspective, live kind of quote unquote. So we’re going to be doing some, interviews with special guests and attendees, just so if you want to come by and be on the podcast and share what you’re learning at the builder show, we’d love to have you on and kind of put together a montage of what people are learning and put that out as well.

So, make sure you come by sales central and check it out. And, And a, get on, get on building perspective [00:15:00] can on building perspective and share with your colleagues out there what your, some of your key takeaways have been for the show. So that’s a, it’s a big week. It’s a big, big busy week. I think we’re going to see probably about a hundred thousand people in attendance this year.

crazy. And every time I start posting IBS, all my friends start saying that aren’t in the industry. Like, what do my friends 

Mollie: know by now? Because I’m pretty sure my background picture is me in front of a huge sign that just says IBS and listen, we’re just going to own it. They either think that we’re in it’s funding.

You know, medical or they know us well enough to know it’s the international 

Matt: building. They either know what we’re doing or or think we have problems. 

Mollie: So mad. I have a question for you. I know you are up for one to watch and we mentioned our buddy will is also up for one to watch. If you two were to challenge each [00:16:00] other to a game of old school video games, maybe a Tetris or Mario brothers or something like that, who do you think would win.

Matt: I mean, I personally am going to say that I would win. I can’t go. I can’t go into anything and not think that I’m not going to win it. Obviously. 


Mario kart. 

Mollie: Mario card, that’s your game of choice. 

Matt: That’s my game. 

Mollie: So we’re going to let everyone know. Tuesday, we’re going to declare a competition of Matt and we’ll two of the industries, one to watch and we’ll see who’s better at some old school video games and have some fun.

Matt: We’ll D if you’re listening to this, this is your shout down, homie.

All right, well, let’s take a quick break and we come back. We’re going to dive into our focus discussion of the week and we’re going to talk a little bit about. The experience. All right. We’ll be right back.

[00:17:00] all right, and we are back and we’re going to dive into our focus discussion of the week this week. The experience. I want to talk about what the heck that means and how that ties into our, from a marketing perspective, how that ties in. So I’ll start, Mollie, is that, so this, what inspired this, the subject as a whole is.

We decided, my wife and I, we decided that, well, mainly me. we decided that we needed a new mattress. We’ve had a mattress for like 17 years, and we decided it was time or I decided it was time for a new one. I got tired of waking up in the mornings now over the past couple months and feeling like I had to like.

Uncoil my body and like do a [00:18:00] stretch as soon as I got up because it just my neck and my lower back and I just wasn’t, I couldn’t get comfortable in our bed historically. It’s just been really, really comfortable. We’ve obviously, we’ve had it for 17 years. We’ve gotten our well gotten our money’s worth out of it.

But because of that, we went mattress shopping and, it made me think about. The experience we go through when purchasing anything really and how that relates to, you know, even as some, even as simple or maybe not so simple as something as buying a mattress or anything else that’s a value into what we do.

It’s homebuilders and Mollie, when I was telling you about it earlier this morning, you were like, you know what? That’s so funny because we, you know, we did something similar to that and we can kind of talk through that a little bit. so, all right. I, I think I’ll, I’ll start the, the backstory I told you, I got tired of the whole uncoiling myself getting out of bed and just, [00:19:00] instead of waking up in the morning feeling good, I was waking up in the morning.

Feeling sore and stiff, not what you should feel like after you’ve slept for six, seven, eight hours. And, so I finally broke down cause my wife Amy, she loves our bed and I have in the past as well, but she, I finally told her like a week ago, I said, honey, I got some bad news to break to you. And she was like, what was it?

I think it’s time. Time for what? And she has no idea what I’m, and I’m like, we need a new mattress. And she’s like, Oh, okay. You know, and so anyway, I’m, I’m being a little overdramatic with her because I thought she was going to just freak out cause she loves her bed so much. But. I told her the issues that I was having.

She’s like, no, we got to go get a new mattress. So I start going online and I start shopping. I go do the typical consumer thing, which is start going to, I go to consumer reports. I start looking at like the ranking, the ratings of the different [00:20:00] mattresses. Now. I go to consumer reports first because I don’t want to just go to random mattress websites cause, because I know I’m going to get flooded with all kinds of ads and I’m okay with that.

So, but I just want to make sure that the ads I’m getting are ads of companies that I actually want to research or, or somewhat interested in. so I’m really strategic about like if I, if I just go into something I’m want to check out, but I’m not quite sure. I’m going into private mode and my browsers, so it doesn’t like track me.

and, but then when I’m not, you know, I’m turning all that off. So I go to consumer reports and I get my list of like five different companies, and then I start going to their respective websites and then the onslaught of advertising for mattresses. Ensue. and so, yeah. And you know, there’s about, for me, I’m a fairly quick decision maker.

I don’t know, Mollie, if that, you know, does that sound about right? 

Mollie: yes. And I’m the same way. 

Matt: All right. So I’m a fairly quick decision [00:21:00] maker, but I do like to do, you know, I do some research. I don’t just make, you know, well, most of the time I don’t make impulse decisions. but so start digging in and I’m like, okay, I’ll start planning out where we can go shop for mattresses and what’s the best use of our time as far as like, okay, we can go here and knock out these different ones.

So we did, and we had a very different experience in each location, each store that we went to. And the last place that we went to, and I’ll get into this in a minute, but the last place that we went to was the place that we bought from. and it was all about the sales experience. We talk about.

Marketing and really like, you know, kind of the three P’s of marketing, price, product, and promotion. And when we talk about those kinds of things all the time, but it really connects at the very end with the overall sales experience and demonstration, on the sales side. So in [00:22:00] our case, it’s the model home, but we can do a phenomenal job of marketing and getting people in the door.

But if that demos not right, then it all falls apart. Mollie, what do you think? 

Mollie: Yeah, so it’s funny cause I have, my experience with mattress shopping is I don’t do anything online. I have a local place that I go to that I go to because of exactly what you’re talking about. A really positive past experience that has made me a customer for life.

So, There’s a specific sales person who I just trust because of how he taught me too. Evaluate mattresses. Can I share that? 

Matt: Yeah, go ahead. 

Mollie: Okay, so what he taught me was he, you start, you look at, you know, I started by looking at the very, very high end, which was, in this case, a Tempurpedic. And then I went from there and.

What he said you do is you start at the [00:23:00] low, then you go and you lie on the low end right after the high end, and you feel the difference. And then you lie on the next one up, and then the next one up, and then you keep moving up until you can’t feel the difference. So we actually landed on not a Tempurpedic, but maybe.

Two levels down. So I, I joke, I say we have an imitation Tempurpedic, but we couldn’t tell the difference between that one and the Tempurpedic. So for us, it matched the, the product, was equivalent for the best price. So I now totally trust this guy. I would, I would only buy a mattress from him. I’ve bought multiple mattresses from him, and it’s really because, You know, I feel like he taught me something. I feel like he showed me the best way to do it. And, yeah. And then I’ll continue to be a customer. one thing that I think is, is really important cause it’s, you know, we’re talking about mattresses and this is a builder podcast. This actually ties into my [00:24:00] topic for the sales rally and it’s really sleep is one of the fundamental basic human needs.

So when it comes to sales and marketing in general. That’s really what’s important is tapping into those basic needs. So, you know, really making sure that you are addressing that from a sales and marketing standpoint. So sleep is really, really important. So I’m not surprised, Matt, that you said, okay, it’s time we need a new mattress.

So tell us about your experience. 

Matt: Yeah, so if first what I led with. I was waking up in the morning, basically uncomfortable. That’s a key part of the story, right? I w I’m waking up in the morning, uncomfortable quote unquote, that’s my pain. And so, obviously we do the research, then we’d go out, we’d go ended up going just able to go to the mall and hit basically all five places, to see everything.

But, so the first place we went to, I’ll, I’ll lay out the brands, as well. So we [00:25:00] went to a mattress. Company store first it was called Tuft and needle. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that. They’ve been in business, it’s like 2012. and so their thing is like, the mattress industry is broken. We’re trying to fix it.

And so their whole thing was, we don’t have salespeople on commission. Our whole job is for you to come to our store and just obviously be helped. So I don’t know anything about mattresses. other than I want one that’s gonna make me sleep good and I want to wake up comfortable. That’s all I know. And so as we relate this to home-building, this is really all the customer knows, right?

So all I know is I’m uncomfortable and I have been for a few months and now I want to be comfortable again. There’s my pain. So I go in and I am looking for an education and experience someone to help walk me through this a bit because the last time I bought a mattress for myself was 17 years ago. So I’m clearly here, [00:26:00] I’m in pain, and my pain point is I’m waking up uncomfortable.

And so we go to, the first place. Tuft and needle. I’m looking for an experience. I’m looking for someone to help guide me through this because I don’t do this. I mean, the last time I bought my mattress for 17 years ago and we bought the kid’s mattresses in between, but I mean, they don’t really care as long as it’s soft.

I mean, they’re, they weigh like 80 pounds, you know, it’s no big deal. So, but this is important. I mean, if you wake up and sore and uncomfortable, you’re definitely not starting your day off on the right foot. So, you know, so we’re going there and the, the Tuft and needle thing is all about, Hey, we’ll just guide you through.

We don’t have commission sales people. And really what it turned into was they had someone that was there that could basically just answer some of my basic questions and tell me a little bit about. Their products. Right? Nothing super in depth, but obviously I’m comparison shopping and one of the things right out of the gate, I [00:27:00] noticed that they didn’t talk a ton about, or I shouldn’t say a ton, hardly any about their competitors and how they differ.

And I think that’s a really key thing because I literally said I, this is our first stop. I named off the different mattress companies that we were going to be looking at. they told me where in the mall those stores were located. which was helpful. I guess I didn’t, you know, the, they like, Oh, there’s a Tempurpedic store in here.

And I’m like, Oh, I didn’t know that. I had just opened in December. And so my cool. So we could shop for everything we needed at once at one stop. And, so anyway. They’re not really talking about the differences. They’re just talking about their product and they’re not super knowledgeable. Honestly, they’re more knowledgeable than I am, but they’re not that knowledge.

I start asking questions like, Oh, hold on, let me look that up. Oh, hold on, let me look that up. And I don’t mind the occasional, let me look that up, but if I’ve got that three or four times in a row, to me, that just means you don’t know your product. but the bed, by the way. The bed bite as a [00:28:00] whole was, was pretty comfortable.

I had three different versions and all this kind of stuff. And, the bed was comfortable. I was like, okay, I could, I could do this. But then we go over to Macy’s, and wherever we can see, we wanted to check out purple, the purple mattress. Have you, have you seen that one? So, you see them all over the place.

And so, Checking those out and they’re a significant step up. So like Tuft and needle for a King size bed, you know, we were, it was going to be like eight, 17, 1800 bucks a for this mattress. And I’m like, okay, that’s kind of the price range I was expecting. but then I go into Macy’s and I’m looking for the purple, purple, Casper.

I think the Sealy, we had a Sealy bed before and we were looking for like the really high quality memory foam beds. So we go in a to Macy’s, we’re checking out the purple. I don’t really, it’s kind of springy. It’s kind of weird. It’s one of these, a foamy memory foam mattresses, but it’s got this like layer of rubber, almost on top.

It’s got this like springy feel. And it was kind of funky. And so we’re [00:29:00] asking the sales lady and Macy’s, you know, what’s up, you know, the differences. and she’s like, well, this one’s the purple’s really popular with the young, the young kids. And she was an older lady, I guess, mid to middle aged, older, I don’t know.

But, anyway, so, we’re going through that and I’m like, what does that mean? And, but. Even though it may seem as they saw all these different mattresses, they didn’t have tons of knowledge to talk about the difference. It was kind of like, we’ll leave you to your own devices and lets you go around like kids jumping on, like jumping on the beds, figuring out what 

Mollie: does that mean?

It was less expensive. Like is that when she, trying to say it was like the entry pricing. 

Matt: Well, no. So, so good. Good question. So we went from the Tuft and needle, 17 800 1700 bucks or so for a King size mattress. The purple mattress started at about $2,700 

Mollie: those kids are making money 

Matt: and. And I’m like, Holy mackerel.

and so I’m like, this is weird. And then we start looking at these other ones. And [00:30:00] they also had Tempurpedic in the store and the Macy’s store. and she’s like, well, typically the Tempurpedic is more. Popular with the older crowd. The purple is, Oh my God, I don’t like the purple. So does that mean that we’re old?

And she’s like, well, no, it’s mainly price point. And by the way, I mean, so I feel like she’s totally curb qualifying me cause I’m in jeans and a tee shirt and tennis shoes just right. I mean, I don’t care. We’re just running up to the mall and, like I can’t afford the. You know, and I got judged, I got curved falsified, and it was like she was totally trying to, you know, like, well, you need, you should be looking at these.

And I hadn’t even asked me any questions about. What I wanted, and you know what I was looking for? I honestly, I don’t even know what I was looking for, but I knew what I felt and I knew I didn’t like the way that I felt and I wanted to change that. So I’m in pain from the very, very beginning, which if [00:31:00] I’m in pain, means I’m probably willing to pay more than what I think I’m willing to pay to fix.

Said problem. And, I’m like, okay. So we bounced around on the mattresses in there for a little bit, and then I’m like, okay, it’s time to go to the Tempurpedic store that’s downstairs. So we go down there and this is there, and there’s sleep numbers in there too, by the way. Sleep numbers. I’ve got a brick and mortar store in their Tempur-Pedic’s in there.

and I already, based on reviews, like sleep number, gotten high reviews, but, there was some. Feedback about the little air pump that cause the sleep. That’s how the sleep number works. Apparently it puts in air on a top layer and that’s how to adjust the softness of the firmness based on the side. So my concern right out of the gate was, is this pump going to break?

And it’s entering in like I’m a tech junkie, but like. in our last episode, Meredith actually was talking about, she just bought a sleep number mattress and it linked to her phone. It could give her a sleep quality score on how she slept. And I’m like, I don’t need a sleep quality [00:32:00] score because I know if I wake up in the morning and if I didn’t sleep well or not, Also, I was leery that it was going to break. you think about like all the fancy stuff, fancy refrigerators, fancy washing machines with all the fancy electronics in it, and these things just break. At least that’s been my experience. So I’m like, I just want a bed. And so we check out sleep number real quick, and then we go over to Tempurpedic and the sales guy in there, I wouldn’t say that the sales guy was spectacular, but he, he did what I was looking for, right?

So he starts immediately asking qualifying questions. He is know we’ve walked in his store, he’s asking me nothing about budget. Not one thing about budget, and we start going through it and I’m like, what about this one? Or what about this one? What’s this model mean and what’s this name mean? And he stopped me dead in my tracks and he was like, okay, here’s what we’re going to do.

Let’s not look at any of the, any of the tags on the mattresses. Let’s not look at is this medium soft, firm, medium, [00:33:00] hybrid. Like there’s all these different things. He’s like, let’s not look at any of these because it really doesn’t matter. What it all only matters is a similar to your story. It only matters about how it feels to you.

But he entered, he introduced something that was what I felt was kind of cool, but also made sense. He said, I’ve got this really super firm mattress over here. It’s really hard. We don’t sell many of it. You gotta be a really specifically looking for a really, really firm bed, want this. But this will work as essentially like your pallet cleanser.

So if you go from mattress to mattress. You’re not gonna feel the a big difference, but so in between mattresses, I want you to lay for 30 seconds or so on this really hard bed, and it’s just kind of like resets your body for the feel. 

Mollie: That’s interesting. 

Matt: Yeah. And so immediately I’m like intrigued. I’m like, okay, I’m buying into what you’re laying down here.

And. That’s a process. I, I respect that. And so we did, we start laying on all the beds [00:34:00] and, you know, by the way, this is a really great way to upsell somebody. but so I’m laying on the beds not paying attention to, not necessarily the price tag cause we were buying a King size bed regardless. So there’s only so much fluctuation within the different models in that King size.

You know, bed size, right? I mean, king-size puts you at the top end of the price range anyway, no matter what mattress, you know, manufacturer, you’re looking at. So we’re going through this whole thing, and he’s like, which one feels the best? And we identify it and it’s the, and it’s their soft version, but it didn’t feel soft to me.

And his whole point was, the names of these are so subjective, or objective, I should say. They’re so objective to that particular person. and so. No, I’m, I have the same, right. Subjective, my bad. They are so subjective to each individual person. Like soft to you doesn’t mean soft to me from to you doesn’t mean firm to [00:35:00] me.

And so that was, that was a really interesting thing. And then I’m like, okay, okay, what else do I need? Like, let’s start tallying this ticket up. And you know, we couldn’t use our existing box Springs because it needed to be a solid surface, flat surface. We had to buy a new box Springs. And I’m like, all right, Tallamy all up here.

What are, what all are we getting? I need to know how much I’m looking at here, out the door and tallied all up. I’d do the hard swallow. Oh, this is going to hurt. and I look at Amy, she looks at me and, she’s just like, are we, are we buying this today? And I said, yeah. Like, I want my mattress. Like, I’m tired.

It’s almost a little embarrassing. 

Mollie: It’s a Tempurpedic. It had to be like over $6,000 right? 

Matt: No, no, no, no, no. So the mattress by itself was $3,700 

Mollie: low for a Tempurpedic. Those things are . 

Matt: And then we bought two new box, [00:36:00] so out the door, taxes and all, we were 4,300 bucks in a free delivery, and I got $300 worth of like accessories to pick out in the store.

By the way, I picked out a new Tempur-Pedic pillow. I got it for free. The pillow was $190. I was like, you, Oh, Mollie’s pointed herself as she has one. Do you love it? 

Mollie: My sister gave it to me actually. 

Matt: and do you love it? 

Mollie: You know, Daniel loves it, so I agree. Tempurpedic is there. It is. You have to get used to it.

But people who have Tempurpedic love those beds. I have an imitation with my imitation Tempurpedic and my real Tempurpedic pillow. 

Matt: That’s okay. That’s okay. And because what feels good to you? Like the difference in mattresses, it’s all about like your, I think your sales guy hit the nail on the head was like, don’t pay any attention.

Like just lay on whatever, whatever feels good. And if that meant you went back to the Tempurpedic and were like, no, the, I can tell the difference. That’s the one you should have bought. [00:37:00] But it was all about the experience of somebody walking you through. What you were supposed to, you know, like how I was supposed to shop because I don’t buy mattresses every day.

And so the guy did a really good job. I don’t think he, he didn’t even ask for the sale. I was just like, all right, well, what do we need to do? I want to get this thing delivered. You know, it’s going to be seven to 10 days before it gets delivered. I’m probably going to be in Vegas when this thing gets delivered.

and. I’m excited about it. I’m excited to get my new sleep experience. but it w what I felt interesting kind of reflecting back on it was, but it’s not the, he did this amazing job on a sales process, but it was that he had won and that he listened to the issues, my quote unquote pain, cause everybody is buying something because they have a pain in our industry.

It’s, they had a life changing event. Right? It was, they got married, they had a baby, they got divorced. There was a death in the family. They’re upsizing, they’re downsizing. [00:38:00] There is some pain involved, and we have to understand what that pain is and then deliver an experience that’s going to help them because they don’t do this every single day.

so that’s my story. We can talk more about it and unpack that a little. I was like a really long story, but I felt like it was. Impactful, the different cause. What do we think are our home buyers in this industry do? Do you think that they just go to one builder and look at one builder? No. They shop.

Mollie: They do. I can’t believe you have a mall that has five different mattress stores though. 

Matt: Oh my gosh. We joke around. 

Mollie: Difference of living in a city. 

Matt: Oh yeah. 

Mollie: Oh my goodness. We actually thought about just buying a Casper mattress cause it comes off. You just, it pops open and it’s foam. And then I was just too worried about, 

Matt: that was the only one that I wanted to see that I didn’t get to see.

Mollie: Is there a store for those? I think you only can buy those online. 

[00:39:00] Matt: Yeah, but I think that you can, I think they sell them also at like mattress warehouse or some different places like that, but I was done at that point, right? I was like, I’m a, I’ve, I’ve looked at how many mattresses, what am I going to find?

I might save a little bit of money on something, but at this point I’m done. Like, I like this mattress and I’m ready to buy it. And I did. You know, 

Mollie: it is a, it is a good example for housing because. Again, like coming back to basic human needs, like a lot of times we talk about the biggest purchases people make and then we compare it to like cars or something like that.

And cars are not really the same as housing. Everyone needs. A home, everyone needs shelter. Everyone needs, these fundamentals that housing provides, you know, clean, you know, clean and running water. that we, all, that we have, all these different things. So, you know, comparing a need of sleep and how important that is and the value that a consumer would put on that is, is, is much more similar to, You know, the needs that, that housing [00:40:00] needs and that the value, I like that they didn’t start with price and they really, walked you through it in a different way. 

Matt: Because if you think about it, if you’re, if you’re in pain, and I’m not physically in pain, like I have, you know, chronic back problems, but in the morning I’m stiff and sore and I don’t want to be.

And so I call that my pain. And so if you can solve that and figure out what that is, I’m the type of person that’s willing to pay more to solve it quickly. 

Mollie: And I think most people are. 

Matt: Yeah. Cause if you catch that right, and you take me through that, and obviously it’s not, you know, you’re, you’re, when I was in sales or running the run in a sales team, it was, you know.

You understand the pain and you guide them through the process. And then along the way, you poke the bear a little bit, right? You poke the pain, you just bring it up a little bit sprinkled in throughout to remind them that they’re doing this for a [00:41:00] reason and then they’re in a little bit of pain. And it’s just the, it’s always that compared to me poking, you know, poking the bear, poking the sore spot is really just comparing it to what everything that we do, whether it’s marketing or sales, we’re always comparing it to something else.

Mollie: Yeah. And I think, we have these experiences throughout the day, every single day at different levels, and we don’t always realize it. And that ends up being what makes our day a good day or a bad day. And that’s everything from. Getting your coffee in the morning to someone saying hello to you, expecting nothing in return.

It is all these small moments and experiences that add up to this bigger experience of happiness and fulfillment and your life. So, you know, this example, we spent a lot of time talking about a mattress, but this is one example of the, of one of those many experiences. And I think for our listeners, think, you know, after you [00:42:00] listen today, be aware of those experiences in the rest of your day and how they do have either a positive or negative impact on you.

Even those little tiny interactions have a positive or negative impact. And we as an industry have such an opportunity to make the experience of new homes a more positive one. 

Matt: Oh, without a doubt. And . Yeah. I think for me there was a couple of key takeaways. It reinforced why you need to know about your competition.

and in the, in the, in the salesperson’s instance, in Macy’s, she was selling a variety of different products, mattresses, but really didn’t know. Enough about it to help break it down for me. What didn’t even guide me through the whole, that was a complete, there was so many mattresses and different brands that they carried.

She could have totally guided me through what you said your person did, and it [00:43:00] was like, all right, start here and then work your way backwards and try. We’ve got the great thing about shopping at Macy’s. Matt is that you’re able to be in one spot and you’re be able to compare side by side the different fields of these mattresses and what is important to you and what feels the best.

Because at the end of the day, it’s all about what feels the best to you. and if something feels the best to me, I’m willing to pay for it. Right? Whatever that feels the best equates to it doesn’t, you know, in the mattress, since we’re talking about, feels the best, but in the home sense, it what feels the best if you’re buying a car.

What feels the, what feels the best. It doesn’t matter. It’s all about what feels right to you. and they had an unbelievable opportunity to lock it down right there just by providing an experience. and then they lost also lost me in some of the details. So 112, you know, all these mattresses, now it’s 120 day free sleep trial, 90 days sleep, try whatever, return it.

But I [00:44:00] asked a question to Macy’s, I said, so if I don’t like this. Oh yeah, yeah. 120 days for guaranteed sleep trial, you can return it. And I said, well, is there a restocking fee? Well, yeah, there’s a 15% restocking fee, maybe 4,000 bucks. I mean, that’s a decent amount of money to just, not to, not to lose out on when, so I was like, that’s why I said, let’s go down to the temperature  store directly.

And I want to ask them, Cause the direct manufacturer and they did not have a restocking fee. None of the manufacturers where you’re buying it from them directly had a restocking fee. So again, this is know your competitors. Even though Macy’s resells all these different mattresses, if you’re buying directly from the, from the.

Company, there’s not a, there’s not a restocking fee or there’s not a fee involved. But if I’m buying it through the third party reseller, there is, that’s a disconnect. And I think that’s also a disconnect and that that’s part of the brand experience, in my opinion, of, of doing it the right way and [00:45:00] knowing what you’re up against, and, and knowing how to help some guide someone through that comparison model.

Mollie: Yeah. I think, what it also makes me think of is in new home sales, one of the worst things that someone can hear is, Oh yeah, these homes sell themselves. Right? Like that is, that is devaluing the sales person. And when you are talking about your experience at Macy’s, it sounds like you really had someone who wasn’t there to guide you, but was really.

Truly an order taker. Yup. And in order to break that stigma in sales. We can’t just be order takers. We have to be a guide. We have to actively listen and cultivate conversation and solve that problem. And I think, you know, I hate hearing that. Oh yeah, these homes are so great. They sell themselves well, that really takes out, that really devalues the, the sales team and the, the program and the process.

And they’re, you know, [00:46:00] what? They’re amazing at. 

Matt: Well, but it also takes out the personalization. I think, I mean, that’s when someone’s buying something really personal. I think a mattress is something that’s really personal. I lay in it every single night, you know? And what do you do in a house? I’m also the type of person that when it comes to I, when I spend money on something.

I do a wait, I wait it out and go, okay. how much money am I willing to spend on this? Am I, do I use it every day or is it something that I don’t use that often? It’s just, you know, I just need to have it. It’s just a half the half kind of thing to do a function. and if it’s that, if I don’t use it every day and it’s not impacting my life.

You know, or impact in my life. I’m not willing to pay top dollar for something. or I shouldn’t even say top dollar. I’m not willing to pay more than what I personally already value that item at. and so, but if it is something like [00:47:00] shoes. I’m putting them on my feet. I’ve cheaped out on shoes before.

This is back in my retail days when I was on my feet all day long. My feet hurt all the time, and then somebody finds like, dude, you got to spend a couple hundred bucks at least on a pair of good shoes and it’ll change your life. It totally did. Right? Dress pants, go dress stuffed. You would wear to work every single day.

Slacks, I will spend, I don’t go to the clearance rack for that stuff, like I’m going to spend money on things like that that are going to last. A bed, I’m going to, I value quality when it comes to that stuff. And the same thing for a house. I, I bought the home that my builder, Royal Oaks homes, we, I bought a house from us, when, well, when we were Royal Oaks before Mattamy bought us.

but I. We were not the price leader. We were not the Walmart everyday price leader. We weren’t even the target. We weren’t not going to win the price per square foot. Or if you put us on paper, we lose to Pulte Lennar to [00:48:00] every other, the 23 publicly traded home building companies that are in the Raleigh market.

We lost, But it was about, Hey, not everybody can afford a Royal Oaks home. Same thing. I, I, I’m okay with spending more money on something that I feel like is important to us. We live in our home every day, and I wasn’t willing to make those trade offs for four in my home. I’m willing to make those trade offs in something else.

I wasn’t willing to make the trade offs in my bed either. so I’m that kind of person and I’m going to out, I’m going to way. How much I’m going to use it and the impact it’s going to have and I’m willing to spend. More money to get what I want. Obviously budget is still, I still have a budget parameter, but in a house, for instance, I’m willing to buy a smaller home or in a better location to get what I want quality wise.

Like the same thing. I’m, I’m willing to buy less clothes at a higher quality than just go out to the. You know, outlet, store and buy stuff and just cycle through [00:49:00] it all the time. What about you, Mollie? 

Mollie: So I won’t buy a pair of shoes unless I can walk three miles in them. 

Matt: Okay. You got to expand on that. 

Mollie: So I, you know, when you were talking about, shoes, you know, that was, that came to mind just because I live in a city and I walked.

So for me, I value comfort above everything else because I need to be able to walk. And most days I’m just walking my kids to school and walking to the office and walking home is about three miles, so I need to be able to walk three miles. I will pay more to have shoes that I can walk three miles in.

And it’s, it’s really just agreeing with your point. you know, really, really what you value and finding out what, you know, asking those questions up front and, and being able to use those. So what is going to make this person’s life better? And that’s really what the experience is all about. so yeah, I’m agreeing with you.

Matt: All right, well that’s good. [00:50:00] So, you know, as we, as I, as we summarize this, like, I dunno, 35 minute rant on mattresses and other random household items and shoes, right? The reality of it is, is. We as consumers experience have an experience on everything. and it’s just a matter of which type of experience that we as the reseller of that item, are, are willing to deliver.

And are we willing to spend more time? Are we willing to dive in deeper to help someone solve a problem? Maybe it’s a problem they don’t realize that they have yet. And honestly, Mollie, what you and I do. You know, we help builders solve problems and identify problems. And a lot of times the discussion start with.

They don’t know they really have a problem yet. Right? They’re like, or they think they may have a problem, but they have no idea what it is yet. And then we’ve got to dive in and figure out what it is. Cause it’s not a one size fits. All. These [00:51:00] homes are so awesome. They just sell themselves. That’s not personal.

And so we have each business, in our case, each business has a unique situation that has a problem to solve or something to enhance. and as a consumer. I had a problem to solve in a mattress and I didn’t want to be stiff and sore in the morning and take 20 minutes to feel like I can actually function and get loose when I wake up.

And so as, as we’re, as you’re talking to your sales team, if you’re a salesperson listening to this, think about the experience you’re delivering to the consumer, your consumer every day because they don’t do this every day. If you’re a marketing person, is the message you’re delivering. To your potential customers lining up with the experience that they’re going to feel onsite and as a side ramp, cause I know where you’re gonna sign off, but I, I just popped in my head.

One of the first things that I like to do when I go and do a builder visit on a site visit, [00:52:00] kind of consultation visit is, you know, everybody thinks we want to go look at all the marketing and all that kind of stuff, but I say, take needy coming. Some of your models, I don’t want to talk to some of your salespeople and I want to role play through.

I don’t want to just, I don’t want them to tell me what they, what I want to hear. I either want to watch a shop, a video shop, or I want to role play through with the salesperson. What they say to their customers because that.  experience on site, what they’re saying, what their value proposition is, what their experience is on site, has to go upstream into the marketing message.

And a lot of times there’s a huge disconnect between what we’re saying we stand for versus, and what we do versus what’s actually happening in the field. So if you’re a marketing manager or a VP of sales and marketing, you have an impact on one or the other, or both? It’s a really good exercise to look at what’s our messaging and then what’s actually being [00:53:00] accomplished face to face when that online user becomes a real human being and walks in the door.

Mollie: You said something earlier about helping people, and I think that that really ties into where you’re going. You know, there is something fundamental for human beings that when you help other human beings, it is fulfilling for you. So there is something very, very fulfilling in helping people. And I think sometimes we forget that and we lose it.

so what I would love for our listeners to do is today just do something little to help someone else where they don’t ask you. So whether it’s someone reaching for some things, someone. anything you’re going to see it. If you look around, you’re going to see people who need help everywhere with something very tiny.

And I think when you do that tiny act of helping someone, you realize it makes you feel really good. And now think about [00:54:00] it on a larger scale where we get to help people find their new home. and I think we can sometimes lose that and the day to day and that it really is this. You know, it is fulfilling that we get to be a part of that.

So, just to take it all full circle, laugh from mattresses to, 

Matt: yeah. And just, just being a good human being. Good person. That’s right. That’s right. All right. Well. And rant. I just felt like this was a total one-off. Like, you know, I had this experience that we should talk about this cause it’s totally relates.

And, I hope you guys had some really great ideas and insights that sparked from this conversation and some action items. So would love to hear what you think. if you’re at. If you’re at the builder’s show this coming week in Las Vegas, please come by and say hi. Would love to catch up. would love to have you on our montage of building perspective, live from the builder.

Show and hear some of your key takeaways, and, [00:55:00] and what some of the challenges and things you wanna accomplish in 2020. 

Mollie: We’ll talk to you about mattresses. 

Matt: No ma’am, unless you ask and then we’ll talk about mattresses. We’ll talk about anything you want to talk about. All right guys. I really appreciate everything and we look forward to seeing you in Las Vegas this week.

And, so thanks again. So, all right guys, that is going to do it for us this week. Thank you all for joining us. On another episode of building perspective, you can join the conversation on our Facebook group building perspective, or you can ask some questions, chat some chat with some people from all over the industry.

Make sure you find us at the builder show. Thanks so much guys. Have a great week. .

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