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S1 EP30 | Relationships Over Transactions

Show Notes:

Focus Discussion of the Week:

If a picture is worth a thousand words, video is worth significantly more. Skip the automated text and email, and get face to face with your prospects and clients via video! Steve Pacinelli from BombBomb joins Matt and Mollie on Building Perspective to discuss “Relationships Over Transactions” and how video can make your sales process a little more human.

Read Steve’s Book: Rehumanize Your Business

Steve is Reading:

Steve is Listening To:

Top Topic of The Week:

With everything that’s going on right now, your marketing can feel a bit tone deaf, which could leave a bad taste in your prospects’ mouths… listen to today’s episode for insights into creating certainty in uncertain times.

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Two thought leaders come together to explore all things sales and marketing from their unique perspectives. Each week, Mollie Elkman, Matt Riley, and others from Group Two dive into a focus discussion to talk about the latest trends, changes, and best practices.

Steve: The pendulum has swung back the other way. For the past 15 years, everything has been about automation and efficiency and efficiency and efficiency and automating relationships. And so I think we reached, you know, the, the maximum capacity, you know, on that messaging. And automation is great. We use automation to, but you have to blend it with that personal touch.

and that’s why the, like the re humanization, because we communicate it. Face to face since the beginning of mankind, and then it’s just been the past 25 years that you know someone. Decided that email and text based communication was going to be our predominant form of business communication. And so we went from face to face.

Then we went to all digital. Then we went to automated digital and realize that this isn’t, you know, this isn’t working, and now the pendulum has swung back and that’s why we went with, you know, rehumanize. Your business because we do feel that, and not just with video, but in other aspects, there’s other tools and systems coming out out there that, that are putting the people at the forefront because that’s the most important part of the sales process.

Matt: Hi and welcome to building perspective with Matt Riley and Mollie Elkman. 

Mollie: We’re here to bring value to you and your team by exploring all things sales and marketing related, 

Matt: all from different perspectives. Today, our focus discussion of the week this week is. Relationships over transactions with our guests.

Steve pest Anelli, the COO of BombBomb, 

Mollie: but first, let’s dive into our top topics of the week. 

Matt: All right. We are going to have a, we’re just going to have a little free flowing conversation. Here we are. We’ve rerecorded this intro to this podcast on the day that it actually goes out because we want to walk the walk with.

How we’re doing things and actually how we’re recommending builders do things and keeping an eye on tonality. And as we were going back and listening to our, our original podcast recording that was just done like a week and a half or two weeks ago for this particular segment, it was a little tone deaf.

We, you know, we weren’t in the same position that we were, are that we are today and we are, Mollie and I were kind of joking around about it in a, in a lighthearted way, but. Didn’t feel like that was appropriate. So we just wanted to dive in, do a quick rerecord, and just have kind of a free flowing conversation about.

Where we’re at, what’s happening. I know Mollie’s Mollie’s, dealing with some transitions on her side that she’ll talk about in a minute. And just like the changes that are required when your normal job role, not job role, but you where you, where you’re doing your job shifts and just things that were all or most of us are dealing with.

Right now, specifically. So, I figured Mollie, I would, if you’re okay with this, I would lead in, I just want to come, maybe run through, we talked about those five points. I talked about it on the social media post, or on, on, on a social media post. I talked about it in our two webinars that we were a part of this week.

and it may, may be, a good message. Definitely start a conversation with. So for me, you know, Monday morning I woke up. With that thought, like a lot of clarity on where we were, what we really, what we needed to focus on. and so those five points, I tried to put them down into some bullet action item.

Points themselves. So here’s, here’s here they are. Number one, I’ve got a perspective, so we have to remember that this is not 2008 and 2009 this is different, and that’s okay. No, nobody has gone through this type of like a pandemic before. However, what we do know is going to be compare. Now versus the, you know, the entrance of the great recession housing is PO

Is it such a different position than it was then? You know, before anybody, you could fog a mirror and get alone. Overbuilding was happening. I mean, it was, it was truly a housing bubble that was prime to be popped. And in all actuality, when it started falling, we had no idea. Where the bottom was, and the analogy is like now, and we’re the scenario where now we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

We know this is a temporary thing. The only X factor is we just don’t know how temporary. so in Oh eight, Oh nine. Instead of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, we didn’t even know where the dag on tunnel was. And so I think that that is a big thing to keep in number one point perspective.

Number two is patients. We’ve got to accept that we’re gonna just have to wait it out, right? There are things that we can do from a marketing perspective to stay in front of people and advancing in technology and how we’re doing things. And more on that in a minute. But we’ve got to. Except that it’s going to, we’re going to have to wait it out and any action that we take to help.

Tamp down the, the virus is going to have a negative effect on our economy. It just is what it is. but the reality is our industry is also very different than a lot of other industries. Airlines, travel, shopping malls, all, most industries are geared around, large groups and gatherings of people.

Ours is not real estate is very personal and most of the time it’s a one on one or a one on one family kind of conversation. And that’s what we have in our favor to work through this. And because inventory is still so low, there’s already pent up demand and. We’re, we’re under supplied on a, as far as inventory goes.

It’s really, I’m not gonna, like I said, be the same, three operational excellence. So your systems and processes have to be on point. If they are, you’re not going to feel it as much, right? Because you’ve already got things in place to handle some of that adversary. I can’t talk this morning, handle some of those issues.

but if you’re, if they’re not, you gotta act now because this is absolutely the time. And chances are we actually already have the tools at our disposal. We’re just not using them. Or. Executing on them, insert to replace the word execution with accountability. But the good news is execution costs $0 million.

number four is innovation. So we’ve got to think different, act different. We’ve got to make sure we’re utilizing technology to provide personalized experience and calmness. So things like utilizing video conferencing systems and software. Zoom, a Facebook video messenger from your phone, FaceTime if you have an Apple device.

Being able to continue to move the ball forward when it comes to the pro, the prospects, the customers that you’re already working with. So. Evaluate, are we actually innovating? Are we utilizing technology to its fullest? And right now, this stuff is easy. It’s cheap, it’s free. Free in some cases, that to be able to, to actually do business and not have to be face to face.

So we can talk about that more later if we want. And then the last one is messaging. It has to be appropriate for the time. We’ve got to make sure that our tone is accurate and that we’re, we’re not putting a message out of panic. No big hard selling messages. I know we’ve talked about that inside a group too.

ad nauseum and, no fire sales, right? So stay calm, and, and just kind of keep, keep plugging along. So those are my five, five points from Monday morning. And, people wanted, some folks wanted to hear more about those. I thought, I thought I’d talk about ’em here. 

Mollie: Yeah. And they’re so relevant and are going to continue to be relevant.

In particular for today’s podcast, you’re talking about systems and processes, and it’s perfect that we have Steve from BombBomb because I have to tell you. Using a video email has been essential to me during this time. And I have so much respect for what BombBomb is doing because they actually have offered their services free for educators.

And I’ve shared it with my school district. And, I know a lot of educators are really utilizing it to stay in front of students. And. I, I just think that’s amazing. So I’m very appreciative to, to BombBomb for doing that. Matt had mentioned earlier some of my personal adjustments, and I do have to say I have a new found respect for everyone who works from home as well as teachers around the world.

Let’s just give a an appreciation. To teachers everywhere because, wow, I am, I am home with an eight year old and a three year old, and every day I’m kind of learning as I go and readjusting to what that looks like. Because of course, you don’t want to, you know, shut yourself off from your kids while they’re home, but you also, when you have little kids, It can be a balancing act. So for me, this has been an adjustment. And I think my big takeaway from that is that it’s okay because when we talk about emotion-based marketing, these are, there are a lot of emotions right now. And you know what. I’m a human and I am vulnerable to these evolving changes, just like every other human out there.

And I really, really feel fortunate because, you know, Matt was talking a minute ago about our industry and how our industry can forge ahead and, and just quite frankly, I have three siblings, two who are not in housing and one who is in the two who are not in housing. Were lost their jobs this week. And just think about that for a second.

I mean, we all have friends who are outside of our industry. They don’t have the kind of security we have if they’re in events and entertainment. And, you know, it will go back to normal as soon as this passes. But how lucky are we to be able to do our work and continue to, You know, get our message out there and provide an essential, it is a, an essential, housing and shelter is everyone needs that.

And as people are sitting in their homes more than normal, they are seeing things that they don’t like about their homes more than ever. I can tell you, I have, personally been experiencing that so. It’s a very interesting time. it is changing every day. We want to, you know, as Matt said, our message last week that we recorded was no longer relevant today.

And guess what, this may or may not be relevant in a week or two from now. we’re going to continue to keep the industry informed and we want to communicate with everyone. And remember that. We’re all human and we, you know, as far as messaging goes, just, you know, it’s okay to show that that human side, because we haven’t been through this before.

This is something different. And, I think that it’s something that can connect all of 

Steve: us. 

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. I honestly, I think that we’re going to come out the other side better, right? I think that we’re going to, 

Steve: I do too. 

Matt: You know, kind of gives us a chance to reassess on a personal level too. you know, it’s always interesting how any type of, you know, major issues like this.

bring, it just kinda brings people together. You know, if you think back, you know, the, from nine 11, I mean, our country was United is more than I can ever remember. and I, I think that, you know, we’re looking out for. Everyone else. Right? I think that’s, that’s the key takeaway here is, you know, the economy is going to take a back seat for a minute.

because we’re, we’ve got to make sure we take care of. Our neighbors, you know, and each other. And so I think that’s, that’s what’s that I think is the positive coming out of this. So 

Mollie: the other thing, as we lead into our focus discussion of the week, I, I really do believe that character shows during these times and how people react and communicate.

it really shows like. You’re your character. And I, I am so happy that we have Steven because I just was blown away by their response to this and their immediate call to help and be there. And I just think, it’s very inspiring. So I hope that all of us can do that and just, make sure that we are, we are, showing our best selves.

Matt: Absolutely. All right guys. We’re going to take a quick break and we come back. We’re going to get into our focus discussion of the week this week.

welcome back. We are here with Steve passing, Ellie, the CMO of BombBomb for our discussion of the week, which is. Relationships over transactions, and we are so excited to have Steve on the show. Steve is the CMO of BombBomb, speaker, Xtrordinair, and coauthor of re-humanize your business, and a incredible hobbyist photographer as well.

So Steve, welcome to the show. 

Steve: Welcome. See you. Thank you so much for having me. I can’t wait to dig into the conversation. 

Matt: Absolutely. So, Steve, why don’t we start it just in case someone’s not familiar with you or your company? why don’t you kind of give everybody an overview of who you are, what you do, and what BombBomb does.

Steve: Sure, sure. I guess we’ll start with, with Bob. you know, we try to make digital communication as warm personal. And effective as a face to face meeting. so video messages for communication purposes and replace them typed out texts. So in email and text and social, short form video messages. And so a funny thing is I was actually a BombBomb customer before I came over.

And started working for BombBomb as a VP of marketing in 2015 and then onto the CFO position. But I was a customer from 2011 to 2015 and I’ve always been in the. in the technology space, real estate technology space since the year 2000 and in 2011, I was looking for a way for my team to communicate, more effectively and convert leads more effectively.

And, and that’s when I stumbled upon BombBomb and, and I was trying to convert Facebook leads, and follow up with our clients more effectively. and started using video, made a bunch of mistakes with video, get some things right that some things wrong and learned a lot on the, on the way over those next four years, for sure, before I came over to, the BombBomb as an employee.

Mollie: How many video emails do you send a day? 

Steve: A day, and it’s probably anywhere from three to five I’ve sent out, since I’ve been using BombBomb, I’ve sent over 5,000 videos, and that’s not even there. There’s other people who have sent a lot more, my team overall, I just calculated this recently. my team’s from when I worked at, realtor.com initially.

And then. Coming over here. Sales and marketing teams have sent over 75,000 videos for the purpose of clearer communication. 

Matt: Wow. That, that’s amazing. I mean, that’s, that’s a huge number and I, before we dive into it, I think it’s worth noting, like Mollie and I both use BombBomb to communicate via internal with our team and with our current customers and potential new customers as well.

So it’s something that we integrate. I know, is a. As a previous builder myself, it was something that we implemented and part of our day to day sales process, even with from online salespeople to onsite so they can make a make a really big impact. 

Mollie: One thing that Mike does that really helps me as he shares his screen, so when I something that I don’t quite understand, he’ll use BombBomb and share his screen and kind of give me a how to, so we use it that way as well.

Steve: Well, yeah, you hit upon on one of the, top 10 times to, to use video and, and that’s definitely for demonstration purposes. so you can show someone, something complex or go through a complex topic and make it easier to understand. So, yeah, great use case. 

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. All right, so let’s talk, let’s kind of dive in to the book.

You are the co author of a book called rehumanize your business, and I’ve actually, I read it, I ordered it when you, when it first came out. We’ve known each other for for a couple of years now, and you sent it out. And I was like, Bind. I’m buying Steve’s book and I reread it. I’m just kind of in anticipation of our, of our talk today, just to kind of make sure I had some notes that I wanted to talk about and things like that.

But one of the things that really stood out to me, especially the second time through, was. This is no book that is about any type of theory, right? Like this isn’t do just this big theory pie in the sky. This is, in my opinion, this is a book about two, a book providing tools and how to, and so for you guys, you and Evan, your, your coauthor, I’m sorry, Ethan’s, my apologize.

Yeah. For today’s purposes, it’s, he’s going to be called Evan. Tell him, and so, but for you guys, what was the inspiration for you to say, let’s put this book out? 

Steve: Yeah, so initially, Ethan always knew that he wanted to write a book, and he was tracking, the stories from BombBomb. And. And originally the book was going to be about BombBomb and building the company and just how we came about.

And that gradually morphed into this relationships for video book or using video, personal videos to sell more effectively and rehumanizing your business. And. And when that began to take a turn to just writing the book about video and not about BombBomb itself, but, but how people can incorporate video into their day to day business, the tactics that they, that they can use.

The, when, the why, the how. When that began to switch, that’s when Ethan and I began talking about it a bit more, you know, together. and, and that was really the, the. That was the catalyst there. And it’s like, okay, well let’s change the topic of this book a bit. Let’s make it just about video and, and let’s do it.

Do it together. Now, Ethan, I do want to mention this. Now, I went to Penn state. And you know, at Penn state, you could take English 15 or English 30 for, for your first class there. and of course, like the super smart kids take English 30, and the majority of the kids take English 15. I however, took, English four, which counted for no credits and was the remedial who was the remedial English class.

and so I wasn’t the best writer in the world. And, and so Ethan actually wrote the book, did that, that did the typing. and we met every morning for two to three hours and brainstorm the framework and the stories, which I’m a much better stage storyteller, than, than I am a writer. And so. we got everything together and then he wrote for the rest of the day.

Then we met the next morning and did the same thing again and again and again, and so we had all of our ideas down. 

Matt: That’s amazing. I love it. That’s, so you met for two to three hours daily for how 

Steve: long? A month and a half. Maybe. Maybe two. 

Matt: That’s, that’s great. No, that’s a whole rabbit hole of a whole nother set of questions.

I could go down, we could have a, we’re going to have a whole separate discussion on what it takes to write a book. but yeah, so, no, that’s, that’s, that’s really great. to me is what we’re talking about, how, you know, this is not a book about theory, it’s a book about implementation and tools. And you guys help and have worked with and talk to so many companies across tons of different industries.

Obviously, you know, you, you, you do a lot in the real estate industry as well. But how do you see, cause I think it’s one thing to provide a tool. And in this case, BombBomb is a tool that a company can provide its people, but it’s one thing to provide a tool to your team. It’s a whole nother thing to get it implemented consistently.

So how do you see some best, best practices or the things that you guys recommend to do that effectively? 

Steve: Yeah, and so there has to be a mindset shift. In using video. The book is, we go through the very specifics and the tactics in the book. but you do have to understand, you know, the why you’re doing video and live video is a better method for communicating and connecting and how people, and sales is a transfer of emotion on video allows that emotion to transfer more effectively than that, than the text on the screen.

And if you know that. And you and you firmly believe first that video is a better way to communicate. You’re going to get more replies and responses are going to build deeper connections and establish relationships. Once that’s done, now you can work on the execution and the fear that you might have of recording and sending.

Videos out. But first I need to know your why of doing it. Cause if someone just tells you to do video and you’re afraid of doing video and you don’t know what the outcome would be, you don’t know what the benefit is, then, then you’re not going to move forward and, and do it. but once you establish the why, and you see and you understand and you feel that it’s a better way to communicate, there’s a few things that you can actually do, to become more, more comfortable on camera.

And the first thing is, is just realize that video isn’t about you. It really isn’t. It’s not about you. It’s about the way that you’re making the person feel on the other end. And so your hair, that might be a bit messed up today or the that. The angle of the camera that you don’t think looks flattering on you, the person on the other end isn’t going to care whatsoever.

and so first understanding that that video isn’t about you. The only, the only person that cares the way that you look is, is you. and so it’s a self limiting belief. Then number two, then you might have the F, you know, the fear of, you know, I don’t know what to say, and that might cause or prevent you to not want to record, videos.

And usually that’s . Stems from people thinking, that this type of video should be perfect. It should be a marketing style video. you shouldn’t make a mistake in your delivery of your message. You should have a memorized message or a script and scripts kill scripts are the worst thing. Scripts kill your charisma.

Scripts kill your connection. If you ever write anything out and you want to record it and send it in a video. You are not going to build that connection because you’re going to sound robotic. It’s going to defeat, you know, defeat the purpose and going back, if you don’t have a script, you, you might be thinking, well, geez, how am I going to remember?

You know what I want to say the purpose of this video. So just to be short. It’s supposed to be sweet. And if you do need reminders, just jot down bullet points right in front of you that you can reference and allow the messaging to come out naturally. And so knowing that you don’t need to be perfect, knowing that you don’t need to have a script, but you can have bullet points to help you in sometimes alleviates that fear a bit more.

And then the third tip that I’ll give here. Is if you’re still having problems, if you’re still worried, you know about sending that video and getting it out, the getting it out the door. One of the best tips that I can give is you simply sit there, you close your eyes, you think about something or someone that makes you happy and you think about it.

Pretty, you think about it with a, with a focus mind, for 30 seconds or for 20 seconds, and after you’re done thinking about something that makes you happy, it puts you in the right mind, state, something that makes you grateful. The same part of your brain that’s responsible for gratitude is the same part of your brain that’s responsible for anxiety.

And you can’t feel both at the same time. One pushes the other out. So if you think hard for 30 seconds about. Someone you’re grateful for. And then you stop and then you look up at the camera and you hit the record button. Your demeanor will change the way that you connect with the person that you’re sending the video to, the maybe the, the new lead that’s coming through the door, checking out the, you know, the neighborhood.

It will change. You will connect with people more effectively and you’ll be in a commerce state as well. 

Mollie: So everything you’re touching on I, I think is just so interesting. And, and Matt and I always study the human brain because obviously being in marketing, studying emotion is such a big part of it.

And you are talking about is really one of the. biggest emotions, which being fear and really having people make a choice to overcome their own fear in order to make that human connection and that positive experience. And my question for you is, as social media has evolved and people are becoming more and more aware of their outward facing image.

are you seeing more fear in, in getting video messaging out there, or do you think people just accept more that this is video is important and I have to do it? 

Steve: Okay. That’s a great question. I’ve never been asked that question before, but if I were to come up with just, you know, a personal opinion about the matter, I would say it’s, it is very, but people have, have.

Gotten really good at recording at the perfect angle and knowing the lighting that makes them look good or look bad. And if they have that anxiety, they’re doing things to overcome it. You know, if you stand in front of a window and you face out the window and you point your, you know, you hold up your mobile device to record yourself.

The lighting is, it’s to make your skin look fantastic and you’re going to be glowing. The background is going to be darker, you’re going to be a bit lighter, it’s going to wash out any blemishes or anything that you have on your face. And you know, people that, that are on social media and have recorded videos like they, if they done enough, they figured out these little tips and tricks to help themselves.

So yes, I think maybe to your point,  and what a great question, but to your point. I think awareness, it might be at an all time high, but put the things that overcome that and defeat, that critical self-awareness I think is also increasing. Maybe.

Mollie: Matt, one of the things, when I first started using BombBomb a lot, one of the things that he recommended to me is don’t watch your videos. Just send your videos out. And I do think at some point it’s kind of like, all right, just get over yourself. Like send out your video, share your voice, share your mannerisms, because they don’t come across in email.

It’s not the same. Same as someone seeing your passion and seeing your smile and seeing how you move and get excited when you talk about whatever it is you’re talking about. So, you know, that’s, that is something I always think about is, you know, get out of my own way. Get over myself. Just get on the video.

Get in front of people. 

Steve: Yeah. Trust can only be established when you know the person that you’re communicating with. And if you’re only communicating with black text on a white screen, trust cannot be formed or built until someone actually sees you and hears you. And here’s the tone of your voice. You know, through throughout evolution, we become really good at judging other people’s trustworthiness.

and that’s just something that happens automatically in the background, depending on, you know, what book you read recently or. Or what ideology you subscribed to, but you know, people call it the primitive brain or the lizard brain or the servo mechanism, or the, the anterior . See if I can get, get this one right.

I always, always forget it. The anticoagulant, anterior singular cortex, you know, that part of your brain that’s just responsible for. for all of your emotional decisions, the part of your brain that you don’t have control over, that’s what makes the decisions for you. People decide whether or not they trust you within seven seconds of meeting you.

And so if you’re, if you’re not giving them that opportunity, then people, they don’t believe the message until they believe the messenger. Well. 

Mollie: I love that. 

Matt: I love it. That’s good stuff. we’re getting fancy big words today on building perspective.

It worked for me. no, I love it. So one of the things that I really loved, and I think this ties in well, cause I had written this this down prior to our talk, but it’s, it’s ironic how this kind of comes up again. But. I love that you guys started the book by talking about what video email isn’t right?

Like, it’s not, there’s no magic bullet here. and, and you, you literally let out by saying, wait a minute, where the video is not. Over a million words. It’s not going to give you a 5000% increase in click throughs. It’s not going to do all of these things. Why did you guys feel that it was important to kind of lay that out up 

Steve: front.

Over promising and under delivering is terrible in any situation, no matter what. And I feel like, you know, in today’s day and age where you know, you see these commercials and TV commercials and you’re online and you see an ad for the latest and greatest shiny object, everything is over promised and under delivered.

This is going to change your life. This will change your business. This is going to make you a millionaire. Going to do this, that, and the other. And the point is, it’s just, it’s very rarely, if ever true. So we want it to start off from a place of, of trust, and, and, and tempered. Your video can help your business.

It can help your business massively depending on how you use it. But. Yeah. It’s not the end all be all at the same time. We wanted to to temper people’s belief and, and just show them the path that it can incrementally help you make better relationships, convert more leads, communicate more effectively, and be MBU.

we didn’t want to promise the world. 

Mollie: Yeah. So one of the things that I love is that is the title and rehumanize and this idea of using tech that I do think people tend to think, takes away from the human experience to actually cultivate more of a human experience. Can you tell us a little bit on the process of you guys coming up with that title and, and how you landed 

Steve: there?

Yeah, and you know, I feel there’s a pendulum. The pendulum has swung back the other way. For the past 15 years, everything’s been about automation and efficiency and efficiency and efficiency and automating relationships. And so I think we reached, you know, the, the maximum capacity, you know, on that messaging and automation is great.

We use automation to. but you have to blend it with that personal touch. and that’s why the like the re humanization, because we communicated face to face since the beginning of mankind. And then it’s just been the past 25 years that, you know, someone. Decided that email and text based communication was going to be our predominant form of business communication.

And so we went from face to face. Then we went to all digital. Then we went to automated digital and realized that this isn’t, you know, this isn’t working and now the pendulum has swung back and that’s why we went with, you know, rehumanize your business because we do feel that. And not just with video, but in other aspects.

There’s other tools and systems coming out out there that, that are putting the people at the forefront because that’s the most important part of the sales process. You know, people want to believe they’re their salesperson. They buy from people, they don’t buy from companies. and that’s where the, you know, we talked about humanization and a lot of people talk about humanization, but.

But rehumanize we felt was a better description. We also thought about calling the book video, email, and that serious that we went back and forth for a minute. We were like, that has no emotion. That has no meaning, but, but it’s so clear and simple and people will know what the book is about, you know, rather than rehumanize your business, which is.

Yeah, very soft and fluffy, but I’m so glad 

Mollie: it’s soft and fluffy at all because it implies in the title right there that we have drifted from that human relationship. I really love it. The other piece. That I really love that I want our listeners to think about is really what we, why we use this as the title in your dedication, you guys say to everyone who values relationships over transactions.

Steve: Yeah. 

Mollie: The reason I said it so slowly is because I want our listeners to think about that because I don’t think I know a human being. Who would say, Oh, I don’t vet. You know, that doesn’t value relationships over transactions. So that alone really makes this a book for everyone because we all need and want stronger relationships in our life.

So to me, I just, I loved the wording of that and that’s why we wanted to use that as our title of today’s episode. 

Steve: Oh, that’s, that’s great. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you for, for reminding me and pointing that out. You know, I haven’t read the dedication since we, since we wrote it. Really. and, but it’s, it’s so true.

And that’s, that was really the thrust of the book. 

Mollie: You said it out loud and Ethan wrote it.

Steve: Yeah. I don’t even know. I don’t even know. it’s just something that, that is at the core of who BombBomb is. That’s what attracted me to BombBomb. And that’s something that, that is widely believed as a, as, as a company. And so I think that was there before I even got to BombBomb valuing relationships over transactions.

It’s just always been there. Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. You know, you said something, you were, you’re talking about how we used to communicate, and there’s a, you talk about it in the book as well, but obviously years, you know. Thousands and thousands of years ago, we only communicated through face to face. Then all of a sudden somebody decided that we were going to be communicating, you know, back and forth.

Fast forward till today, we’re, we’re communicating via email and text message and things like that, and I love the re-humanize your business, but what do you say to the naysayer who says, but Steve. I just want to communicate with the customer or people the way that they prefer to communicate. And that is clearly text, message and email.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I would say continue to use texts and email and text based text messages and text based email as well. switching over and rehumanizing your business doesn’t mean. Transferring everything to a video message. People don’t have the time to watch video messages. There’s the right time and place it just like you have different tools in your tool belt.

You’re going to use video when the case arises where video is going to be a more effective means of communication. If you want to send someone. A list of things that they need to check off to do before they buy their new home. And there is zero emotion involved and it’s like, you need to do these five things.

Video is not the format to use the send that over, especially if you already have an established relationship and it’s like, Hey, I need these five things from you. List out the five things. I don’t want to watch a video to remember what number four is. It takes too long and so you want to respect the other person’s time, but there are times and occasions where if you just think about it, there is no one can convince me on this planet that a video wouldn’t be a better form or means of communication.

If you want to establish trust or it’s a first time point of communication, you know, with, with someone else, you can’t convince me that video is not better. If I filled out an online form and I don’t have trust in the company yet because it’s a, you know, it’s an online form and I received a text based message and a video message as the recipient.

The video message is going to check off so many more boxes and give me so much more information for me to go off of on whether or not I like the person, the company, how I feel about them, et cetera. And so time and place, if you need to build rapport and trust. Video is a better answer. If you need to overcome an objection or if someone is upset with you, and you need to send an apology video is, is way better.

If you want to dive into that one video is actually better than being face to face or on the phone. It’s one of the few. Few and rare occasions where video is better than being face to face over the phone or text because usually face to face always wins out. do you want to explore that one more or do you want to, do you want to keep going?

No, no. 

Matt: Explore that. Cause I love, I love where you’re going there because you know that you can still get that face to face, but sometimes it can, it allows you to have a one way conversation and still have some of that. Human connection. 

Steve: Well, that’s so, so that’s it. So bad news is more psychologically compelling, than any other news it takes.

And the studies have been done on this. It takes the brain longer to process bad news. And I’m sure, Mollie and Matt, you’ve, you’ve had this happen where you delivered bad news to someone and one of two things happen. They either sit down and they just closed themselves off and they don’t talk, or they don’t know what to say.

Or the opposite happens and they fly off the handle and they get really mad and upset and it’s usually because there’s pressure for an answer and or decision right out of the gate. By delivering bad news first through a video and then setting up a subsequent in person meeting or a subsequent phone call.

What you’re doing here is you record your video, you deliver the bad news in an asynchronous matter. That person doesn’t feel the need to respond right away, which gives their brain a chance and gives them a chance that think through the news that you just delivered them and the past, hopefully you offered a possible solution or a next step, and think through the next step and why they can rationally think through, not emotionally, but rationally.

Think through why you offered that next step. and in the video we have a good strategy to do is like is when you send that video is to say, Hey, Mollie, you know. I have bad news delivered bad news. Hey, I’m in meetings for, The rest of the day or, or this afternoon. But I do have availability at four o’clock I can either swing by or you can give me a call.

And so what that does is that gives them three hours or four hours to process that information. Think about what you offered, and then when you give them a call or you swing by, you meet them face to face. You will have an infinitely better conversation. They will have thoughtful questions if they have any concerns or objections, but they will be thoughtful.

It will be delivered in a calmer manner. Then what would happen if you were face to face and it is a better experience the whole way around? So, 

Mollie: with that being said, is it safe to say that people who work at BombBomb, if they’re going to be fired, are probably going to get a video? 

Matt: Oh, no. 

Steve: So, so again, it’s, there’s not all absolutes.

You are going to get fired. It is. It is going to be, there’s just some things that you have to do face to face. 

Matt: It’s like the, the dreaded four o’clock Friday meeting, the, you called up the sound. It’s like the dreaded video email at four 59 

Steve: the, I’m closing date being pushed back compared to like losing your job is a little bit different.

Mollie: Yeah. And we actually, so we use it for presenting creative sometimes because we work with, building companies that have multiple people who, you know, instead of showing it to one person, we want to have it in on videos so that they can share it with everyone at the organization who wants to see that piece of creative or that concept that we’re presenting.

and that way they get to hear it directly from us and see our passion and our excitement rather than it being a whisper down the lane kind of thing. 

Steve: That’s a great point, Mollie. And yeah, we talk about that too, because they are never going to deliver the message as well as you can deliver the message.

And so if you want to make sure that, that nothing gets lost in translation, record that video, send it and say, Hey, yeah, please feel free to forward this on to so-and-so. and, and you just overcame another problem. 

Matt: There you go. Okay. So those are phenomenal topics. And one of the things that I’m, I’m gonna take a couple steps back because a, that was worth going through.

but we were talking about really kind of thinking about this from the customer perspective, and we talked about the, you know, what’s the naysayer that says, well, I want to communicate with people the way they want to be communicated to. And you eloquently said. That’s great. Continue to do that. This is a supplement to what you’re already doing.

It enhances, it’s another tool in your tool belt to enhance what you’re, what you’re already doing. Do you what, what I’m thinking of video email. I correlate it to something similar to the coveted handwritten letter. You know, it’s the thoughtful, they took the time. Someone took the time, and today’s 2020 world to write out a handwritten letter, put an envelope, lick a stamp, put it in the mail.

wait. You know. Two to 14 days, depending on, depending on the pistol service, for it to show up. And they got it. And it was like, Oh, that’s great. but that I really see, I dunno if you guys, if that’s kind of your thought process as well, but I really see it as a, that unique way of different, different type of personalization and thoughtfulness.

Yeah. As a tool. 

Steve: Yeah, absolutely. What, what you’ll find when you start sending videos to people is one of their first responses. They’ll say like, thank you for taking the time to do that. When they really don’t know, like it’s faster, especially if you’re using a program like BombBomb where you just click record, you speak your message, you send it out.

People in general speak four times faster than than they can type. So that time that you mentioned, the time it takes to write that handwritten note, if there’s perceived value. In that time that you took, even though most times it’s less time to record and send that video out. And just like we were talking about before too, you know, when should you use video in the process or, or it’s the people that are skeptical that, that.

That say, you know, I don’t want to use video. Let’s just like the phone. And when email came out, people didn’t stop using the phone. When email came out, they use the phone together with email together with text messaging and this is just another, you know, another form of communication, right time, right place type of communication.

Mollie: Yeah. I love, I’m talking about the value of time because as a business owner, it’s something that I talk about a lot. everyone’s time has, has value when it comes to the organization. And I know for me specifically, one of the reasons that I use video emailing and use BombBomb specifically is because.

Sometimes I don’t necessarily have the time to have a back and forth conversation with all the different people that I want to be in front of and I want to connect with. So, you know, to go through and just be able to send him email and say, you know, I just wanted to reach out and I was thinking of you.

And, and it doesn’t have to. Be a back and forth conversation on the phone or a FaceTime kind of thing, but they still get that feeling and that, that value of my time that I’m thinking of them and to me, I just have loved having the ability to do that. 

Steve: It makes it, it makes it concrete. It makes it real.

most of the emails that you receive in your inbox today, 98% of those emails are spam or marketing emails. They’re not one to one communication. People don’t see the time. They don’t feel, it doesn’t automatically relate, you know, to the time. That the sender put into sending that email, because everything is, is marketing.

That’s what you filter through throughout your email inbox. and so when someone records that video and they can actually see the time that you put in, it makes it, it makes it real. and time is your most valuable. Asset. Gary Vaynerchuk does an awesome little segment on time being your most valuable asset.

When you give someone your time, you’re giving them, you know, you’re your most important asset, and they recognize it, they understand it, and they realize it. 

Mollie: One of the things that I find really interesting is that it does seem as though people respond faster to video emails than to typed out emails are, do you guys see that as 

Steve: well?

Yeah, because they know who they’re saying. If by not responding they know who they’re saying no to. Again, it’s all about the realization. There’s an awesome article in the New York times called that  of facelessness. And the epidemic of facelessness, and I’m going to combine a book and that article there in a few other few other sources in this explanation, but basically what it says that.

What it says is that if you can’t see the other person, you don’t recognize them as human beings and you, you react differently and you respond or speak or type, to them differently. And you can, you can realize this. If you go online and you read a polarizing article, maybe it’s, maybe it’s, it’s political in nature and you go down to the comments section and you see in the comments section that people are just.

You know, vicious towards one another. and people wouldn’t act that way. Most people would enact that way if they were face to face. You’re always going to have a few. But most people, you know, wouldn’t be that aggressive. They, they wouldn’t say the same thing. Same thing. Like if you’re driving in your car and someone cuts you off, you have that road rage cause you don’t see the person in the car.

You see. That car, you see that object. and it’s not until you look that person in the eye that you recognize their humanity. And so there’s science around looking people in the eye and recognizing humanity and acting and reacting differently. And so when someone watches your video and they say, Oh, I don’t have time to respond, or I don’t want to type my message out right now.

They think about it differently because now they know who they’re shunning and who they’re saying no to. Even if they knew you before, even if they knew it in the past. It’s that reminder of looking someone in the eye. That’s very important. 

Mollie: It’s really interesting. if we can track down that specific article, we can share it here in the show notes as well.

Steve: The facelessness. 

Mollie: Yeah. What it makes me think about is, again, going back to social media, because even though social media is. You have a picture of a person. it does take away that human aspect of it because you, you aren’t hearing their voice. You aren’t having an open conversation. It almost makes me think, you know, maybe LinkedIn should have, instead of a profile, picture a, you know, video of, the person saying who they are and, and having a little making that more.

Steve: But that, yeah, but that’s exactly why LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, tech talk, everything is video. Everything’s pushing towards video because there’s that re humanization of digital technology. You know, there’s the, the pendulum swing because video is more engaging. Yeah. 

Mollie: It makes perfect sense. 

Matt: Yeah.

Without question. Okay. So. Kind of, as we kind of wrap up and putting it kind of a bow on the conversation, you know, let’s just assume, you know, somebody who’s completely bought in, they’re, they’re utilizing the tools that are in front of them. They’re, you know, they’re all in on that and they’re saying, I’m just not getting.

I don’t see a huge response. What am I doing wrong? Am I, you know, like when you see, when you see something happening like that. You know, do you see fond it, you’re being too rehearsed? Like what are some of the reasons why people might feel that way? 

Steve: Because video isn’t it differentiator you are, and a lot of people when they first start using video right out of the gate, they take the same message that didn’t work in email, and they say, you know what?

I’m going to put this in a video. Okay. And there is a chance that some of the dynamics of video could help you out a bit, but it still all comes back to your messaging. If you’re sending spam, a lot of people that will sign up for BombBomb and they, they sign up for the platform, which allows you to do mass emails rather than like just the one-to-one system.

You know, they’ll, they’ll put their video in into their email and they’ll blast out the marketing message, which just pitches them and their product or their service or whatever they’re doing. And they’re like, man, I’m not. I’m not getting a higher response. It’s like, because no one wanted to hear your message in the first place.

Video isn’t the, and that’s why we started the book this way. Video isn’t the end all be all. It is a better way to communicate if you are truly looking for that connection, if you’re truly looking to communicate more clearly. And so a lot of times I, I teach people just to go right back to your message, right back to their message.

But even before the message, if they say, well, Steve, my video is not getting played. I’m having a problem getting my video played. That comes down to a pattern disrupt, and the first thing I’ll look at in someone’s video message is, does that video message tell me. That it’s specifically for me right out of the gate before I hit play.

Because again, you’re fighting that email inbox. You’re fighting the 98% of spam messages that people get in their inbox. And if someone sees just cause they see a video doesn’t mean they’re going to play it. What they need to see is a video and they need to see some level of personalization that lets them know that, Oh, this is for me.

And that’s why we teach. the whiteboard technique or recording a screen and putting something personal up on the, you know, on the screen that lets them know it’s just for them. Because that is the most crucial component. You need to tell that person instinctively or intuitively that this is for me.

and so that’s where I start first. If their videos aren’t getting played, does it convey that it’s, that it’s personal? Then we get into. You know, the messaging is the messaging for you, is that value for you or is the value for the recipient? If the is for the recipient, you check off box number two and you’re good to go.

Then you, then you go into the delivery and we’re getting a, a bit more in the weeds and more advanced. You have to worry about all of this for your first video, but as you use it, you become more proficient. You’re going to get better and better. but we teach how to convey your messages quickly in a video.

And I like the number method. This is the easiest way for me to send it out, and it’s great for the recipient too. So once I know I have a personalized thumbnail, personalize it, and BombBomb doesn’t animate a preview, so it’s like playing in your inbox. They can see the whiteboard with their name on it, so they know it’s personalized.

So once you know you have a personalized, why don’t you know it’s the right message, then the delivery, and I’ll do something like. Hey Matt, three quick things here for you in this video. Number one, blah, blah, blah. And I make sure, number ones fast, you know, so they feel a sense of time and a sense of, his pace, you know, through for the video or through the video.

And I’ll say, you know, three things, number one, number two, and number three. And what that does is. Just like when you read an article online, it’s like the seven things you need to stop eating today, or you know, you’ll die in 10 years, and all the clickbait headlines that people use, like the five things you need to do right now to make sure you’re healthy, or the nine things people need.

To complete things, and if they start watching your video and they hear number one and two, it is going to be hard for someone to fight that natural instinct to figure out what number three is. 

Matt: I love it. It’s a R, it reminds me of a, I don’t know if you guys watch or have ever watched the big bang theory, any, any show fans you either of you watch that.

Steve: No, I haven’t. 

Matt: Well, this is a total, it’s going to be wasted on you. But anyway, Sheldon Cooper is the, like the, the super OCD type character, and he has to do things in threes and he has to complete things. Otherwise, I like sends him off on a tangent and you can’t, it’s like mental, mental meltdown if you can take complete it.

And then that’s what popped in my head was Sheldon Cooper from the big bang theory. So, but no, I think that’s, I think that’s really, really key. and I think what’s. The one big take, not just the one, but a big takeaway is making sure that it is personal. I talk to lots of teams, lots of people, and they, you know, their instant responses.

Can I, well, how about I just make one video and I don’t say their name and I, but I can just, I can automate it. Like you said earlier, it’s that, that magic word of automated, and I don’t have to do it over and over and over again, but, you know, because I have to manage. 150 250 leads a month. I just want to automate that.

Mollie: Yeah, and I, I want to add one thing because I don’t know if you guys have ever looked into this at BombBomb, but I know that it is the truth for me. So when I send a video, I always smile. Obviously you’re smiling. And what happens is I find that the days that I send videos, my overall happiness. 

Steve: Yeah. 

Mollie: And what I’m doing is improved because you’re smiling more.

Whereas if you’re sitting behind a computer screen and you’re just typing, that isn’t always your instinct to smile while you’re typing. And I, I think that it has a psychological effect because you are smiling and smiling is proven to trigger something in your brain that evokes happiness. You guys, have you ever studied that side of it?

Steve: no, but, but I’ve heard of studies that talk about, you know, it’s like the tail wagging the dog or the dog wagging the tail. Like somebody, you can just smile and it will improve your, your mood. And I, I love that. That, that is an excellent observation. 

Mollie: So there you go, send some videos with BombBomb, it’ll make you a happier person.

How’s that for a selling the program.

Oh, go 

Steve: ahead. I was just gonna say the one, the one point I want to make is, you know, we talked a lot about video strategies throughout the podcast here today. and BombBomb is, of course, one of the ways to make it, make it easy. But, but I hope that the listeners, and if you made it this far. Like my, my goal is to get you bought into video.

It had such an impact on my business when I used it. It helped me and my business grow. and I’m still using it now, of course, as a BombBomb employee. but just, just video in general. And then once you decide that, yes, I do believe that that video is, is right for me. You know, then you have choices out there.

And, and of course we would hope that you check out BombBomb because we make it simple and easy and effective. We work where you do. We have patent pending video technology and a bunch of things that help you record and send and connect more effectively. But, but I hope the overall theme from, from the podcast today is, you know.

Is about video, just video and getting face to face. 

Mollie: Yeah. Steve, you said earlier, they don’t believe the message until they believe the messenger. And I think for our listeners, you have Steve, of course, you know, we buy in Matt and I love BombBomb. So I agree. I mean, this is a tool that we all believe in and, I, I know that that will come across to our listeners for sure.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah, I would think so. Yes. 

Matt: All right. All right Steve. So before we let you go, cause I want to be aware of your time, we like to ask everybody on the show a couple of quick, quick questions, quick hitter questions. One kind of kind of fun. what do you, if any, binge watching, what are you listening to and what are you reading.

Steve: Oh, man. so this year I made a, a yearly goal to read for 15 minutes. I, I’ve always been a reader. but this year I made a goal to read for 15 minutes every single day. So this year, I guess it’s 366 days a year, you know, with, with leap year in effect. And so that just. Forcing myself just the 15 minutes.

What ends up happening is I read for 15 and then I, I don’t want to stop. And it’s that momentum that’s going. and so I, you know, I have this book list and I’m not trying to read, you know, a lot of books. but I, I read 13 books so far this year. It’s March six, which is the most I’ve ever read in a year so far.

and, and I’ve read so many good ones, and so many that go together. so some of my favorite so far this year would be Ryan holiday books. I read. Ego is the enemy, and stillness is the key. and stillness is the key, especially helped me with just creating space and stillness to think and why.

That’s why that’s important. And then that kind of went right into and distractable by near I L a and like creating stillness, but then also reducing distractions around you. And like, so these books kind of went together for me and I had this nice, a nice little. Journey through these topics. and I’m on right now, I’m on a book called Psycho-Cybernetics was, was written in 1960 by Maxwell molds.

and it’s, it’s taking some of the things from the other books and it’s a deeper, version of some of the other topics, that, that I’ve read. And I think it’s like a perfect combination. So those have been some of my favorite CR recently. Book-wise. podcasts. I listen to a bunch of podcasts. Most of them are our marketing podcasts.

VP of marketing show, the COO podcast with Jim Stangle. I listen to a podcast called ground up. but if I were to. Pick something not along those lines. I would say a 10% happier with Dan Harris, which is a podcast about meditating. and if you’re a skeptic, if you’re skeptical about meditating, it’s, it’s pretty awesome.

Mollie: I knew when you said that your book was stillness is the key that you were a meditator. Because I got a date with my son before bed at night, and last night I was saying. Zachary just be still, 

Steve: I need it. I need it cause I’m spastic and mindfulness helps me hit my spastic nature. 

Matt: Yeah. I’m the same way. It actually is really challenging for me to just sit and be still, my wife’s like, can you not just be still?

I’m like, no, I can’t. I’m sorry. It’s really, it’s challenging. Seriously. 

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And then, this is embarrassing. I haven’t watched that much TV lately, but the show that I did just binge watch with, with my wife is on a, is embarrassing. It’s on Netflix and it’s love is blind and it’s like this dating show.

I found it fascinating to be honest, but, know we benchmarked that. 

Mollie: Chit chatting about that one and I’m like,

Steve: yeah, it’s a lot. If you like psychology, Mollie, there’s a, there’s a lot in there because they date each other without seeing each other and people propose. It’s crazy. It’s crazy. Show. 

Matt: That’s great. That’s great. Well, Steve, thank you so much for coming on our show. It was very, very insightful. You shared some phenomenal tips and you know, congrats on, on the book release.

I know it’s doing really, really well and just, you know, well, well done. 

Steve: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed my time on the show, speaking with you both and, and yeah, maybe we cannot do it again in the future sometime. 

Matt: Absolutely. We’d love to have you on. Thanks so much, Steve. 

Steve: Thanks guys. .


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