[00:00:00] Matt: Everybody knows, they at least know they can track stuff, right? We, I can see this data, I expect to track things, but what is, what is the things that are, that are, we’re looking at. What does it tell me I need to change? What adjustments do I need to make because of that data, right? How do I marry up the right pieces of the puzzle together?

Or how do I get the right, right ingredients of the chili recipe in there, mixing it all together so the chili tastes just right and. Not just go, okay, I’m going to look at this piece of information in a silo and I’m going to start making decisions based on this one thing. Having really no idea how this impacts or the domino effect of all these other pieces.

So it’s understanding 

the data. 

Letting it tell us a story and then having under better understanding of what we [00:01:00] need to adjust because of that information.

Hi and welcome to building perspective with Matt Riley and Molly open. 

Mollie: We’re here to bring value to you and your team by exploring all things sales and marketing related 

Matt: all from different perspectives. This week’s episode is a little preview for you. I’m really excited to have Dave batcher and Meredith Oliver on the show to chat with me about.

Our talk at IBS this year called marketing by the numbers. Make sure you check it out. It’s day one of the show at 1245 on Tuesday, so make sure you check it out. But, I hope you enjoy this. We get to chat and rant a little bit [00:02:00] and banter between the three of us, about some things that we’ll be talking about, some things that.

We won’t be talking about in the, in at IBS, but, kinda ties in with what we’re discussing. So really excited for you to hear this. These two guys and gals are extremely smart and I’m really, really happy to be with them on the stage this year at IBS. So without further ado, I will let you dive right in to our IBS sneak peak of marketing by the numbers.

Hope you enjoy. See you in Vegas.

all right, and welcome back from our break. And, I am super excited for this week. Special IBS preview episode. And no, I’m not referring to irritable bowel syndrome previews. [00:03:00] That’s gross. but, but I do have some very special guests with me today. I am super honored to be sharing the stage this year with.

The one and only Lee’s Meredith Oliver and Dave . And welcome to the show slash IBS preview episode. Guys, 

Dave: really happy to be here. Yes 

Meredith: to be here. 

Matt: So much fun. And we are going to talk about today, like are we’re going to do a little preview about what we’re going to be talking about. And what it kind of dive in like a behind the scenes about what we’re talking about.

And that is marketing by the numbers. And I think that’s near and dear to everyone’s hearts right now. and a very hot topic of 2019 and an even more hot topic for 2020 going in and we, it’s going to be really fun and interesting because. We all kind of have a little bit different, AF just a little bit different perspective that we [00:04:00] see the data from and how we’re interacting with builder data and the, just kind of the things that we see and how we’re projecting.

And so I think this will just be a really fun time, really fun chance to. To talk through and just share a little bit, kind of each of us about what we’re seeing, what each of us are seeing, and kind of some, maybe some, dare we say predictions for 2020, get a little fancy with some predictions. And, yeah, so let’s, let’s, let’s dive in.

And first before we do, in case anyone doesn’t know, and they’ve been living under a rock, and they don’t know who Meredith in Dave. Are. Why don’t we take a second? So Meredith, you go first. Tell us a little bit about you and your company and what you do, and then Dave, you tell us a little bit about what you do, and then we’ll dive into our tour chat.

Meredith: Yeah. Cool. Well, thank you for inviting me for this episode of building perspective. Very honored to be here and excited to work with you guys and speak with [00:05:00] you guys in January. It’s coming up fast, so yeah, I’m Meredith Oliver. And I help home builders drive more traffic leads and sales to their organizations with digital marketing.

So we do digital marketing services from website design and development to paid ads to SEO to whatever. And when we’re not doing that, I’m out. I’m kind of the thought leader face of the company and I’m out giving talks and writing books and doing all that kind of fun stuff to help people connect the dots, whether they’re using us for their marketing services or not.

So that’s us. We started in 2001. Clearly I was only five years old, clearly, 

Matt: obviously. 

Meredith: Yeah. I can’t believe I’m even going to say this, but it is my 18 one eight consecutive year speaking at the builder show. 

Matt: Oh 

Meredith: yeah, I’m going for 20. After [00:06:00] that. Y’all can all figure out what to do by yourselves. No kidding.

But yeah, so this is 18. and I don’t take it lightly. I take it as a huge honor and as a huge challenge every year and write new material every year in this will happen to be one of the things they selected that they wanted to hear more about the committee. And here we go. 

Matt: Here we go. And I have a question, Meredith, when do you sleep?

Meredith: Not well and not often. And you know what, we will come back to that topic in just a second, but I want Dave to get to introduce himself first, but bring us back around to that, cause I actually have a good point on that. 

Matt: I love it. Okay, Dave, let’s your turn go. 

Dave: Well, thank you again and, Dave Boucher here from ECI solutions, also known as lasso CRM.

And I’m just like, Meredith, this is my 18th year, I can’t believe it. 18th year of providing [00:07:00] CRM services to builders, developers, and sales agencies out there, which is just, you know, you look at that number and you go, wow, I can’t believe how fast time has gone. I just got my. My little notice of my 18th year anniversary yesterday.

So I was a little bit in shock. And just like Meredith, I too started when I was, I was actually six Veritas. 

Meredith: So 

Dave: what my role is, I’m the VP of consulting services now, so I’m actually a cofounder of lasso, but just recently transitioned into a role of, of consulting services and, and what I’ve really found throughout the years is that.

Builders traditionally are really good at, Building homes. that’s something that, that they, that they know exceptionally well, but it’s everything that, that needs to happen prior to building homes that sometimes can make the, make the difference. And Meredith, you just stated that, you know, you write new content every single year and you know, if, if we look back, sometimes it’s, we, we can think that, geez, the home building industry sure moves slowly when it comes to, you know, [00:08:00] technology and adoption and those kinds of things.

But at the same time. Things are changing so rapidly that we have to have new content every single year to provide to our customers because that’s how customers are shopping. That’s how their customers are shopping now. So, you know, really critical that we’re having this discussion today because sometimes.

You don’t know what you don’t know. And if you can look at the numbers and really take a, take a, a deeper dive and have some sense of understanding in terms of what do these numbers tell me, and then how can I take them and make improvements in my business, make the customer experience more, fabulous as, as kind of that, that’s the thing that, that, We certainly talk about every single day is just making that, that experience remarkable for the customer. And at the same time, while you’re doing that, you know, making, making us more profitable as, as builders. So that’s kind of what my role is. And, probably you’re, you’re even more confused about what I do every single day as well.

But hopefully as we go through this, it’ll [00:09:00] make more sense and, really looking forward to this with you guys. 

Matt: Yeah, I love it. I love it. And if there’s, if there’s ever any, any question about somebody who, like, what do you do? Just you just say, I consult and that just covers everything, 

Dave: right? It’s a nice umbrella.

Yeah, exactly. 

Meredith: If you want to, if you want to really like throw them off and make them go. You say, I’m a motivational speaker? Oh,

I mean, if you could say anything like kind of nebulous like that. You go, I’m a motivational speaker, and they go, what is that? And you’re like, I really don’t know.

Dave: You had a question for Meredith and I don’t want you to get sidetracked by my ramblings. 

Matt: Yeah, I had a very important question, which is, when do you sleep? 

Meredith: Yeah. So, okay. So back to my sleep. So, part of the inspiration for this program actually [00:10:00] directly relates to my lack of sleep and when I sleep, which is not much, and not often, so.

A couple of months ago, Alan and I decided we needed a new mattress. Like this thing was not cutting it. We moved it a couple times this summer and it just done, done. So we shopped everything. I mean, we shopped Tempurpedic, we shopped purple. We, I mean, if, if there’s a mattress out there, we shopped it and I wasn’t really sold on anything until I walked into the sleep number store.

And I don’t know if any of you out there have ever had the sales experience of a sleep number store, but I highly recommend it and be careful. You’ll end up buying a bed, but even if you don’t need a bed, go to a sleep number store if you’re in sales and marketing and let them do their thing with you because it’s

Amazing. And what they done, and by the way, PSI bought one that’s about the [00:11:00] same cost as Brady’s first car will be. But what they’ve done is they’ve take the, they’ve taken the art of sleep and. Transitioned it into the science of sleep, and it’s all by the numbers. So to your question, Matt, I slept so poorly last night that my sleep IQ app for my sleep number bed reports that I scored an 11.

Matt: Out of 

Meredith: a hundred, 

Matt: I would say that’s poor. 

Meredith: That’s not good. That’s not good. Yeah, that’s not good. So every night I get, can see my analytics on my sleep, everything from my restful sleep to my restless, to my exits and my breath, beats per minute and stuff. And if this is creeping you out, I get it. It is kind of creepy.

But at the same time, it really, knowing my numbers has really helped me be able to kind of figure out how to improve my sleep cause it’s kind of been an issue. [00:12:00] And so normally I don’t score in the lemon. Normally a score more high eighties low nineties which appears to be about the best you can do. so it’s kinda cool.

And then I can adjust the bed, my half of the bed to the firmness, softness, coolness, hotness. I can adjust all these different levels on my side to then get myself higher than an 11. And. When I went through this experience, not only that, end up buying the bed, I was like, Oh my God, this is our seminar.

Like this is what we’re doing. And so when, it’s funny, those of you that don’t know how the behind the scenes of the builder’s show and education programs work, you know, anybody’s welcome to submit a program. And so we all kind of independently write stuff up that we think people might find interesting.

And then a committee gets literally hundreds of them, Coles through the mall. And apparently, Dave and [00:13:00] Angela at ECI lasso and with Matt had put together one that was a similar kind of by the numbers one that I had submitted. And so they put us all together and made the dream team. And here we are.

Right? Yup. And so I think what we’re trying to do here, at least from my perspective, is helped olders market by the numbers. Kind of like I’ve learned to sleep by the numbers and the outcome is a better end product. And of course, in with our builders, what we’re trying to do is sell more homes. And that’s really the basic idea of it.

So. Kind of a cool analogy, I guess. I love it. Yup. It was really, what was the inspiration for me for the program? 

Dave: Yeah. Oh, I love Meredith. Yeah. It’s so, it’s so on how we can take that experience in our lives that really has nothing to do with, with what we do. And just have that aha moment that, you know, this is, this is, this is the experience.

And, and for you as, as the customer, what was the differentiator for you? Was it, was it the gadgets? Was it the, you know, was it the app or was it the [00:14:00] entire experience from the. That you saw that sleep country ad you walked up to the store, you saw the light from the outside, you walked in, you, all of those kinds of things that led up to this moment, 

Meredith: and it really was all of the above.

I would say, obviously I’m a, I’m a technology gadget girl. We know this, right? I’m in good company with that kind of thing. You guys are too. And so I love that. Stuff. So I liked the technology aspect, but I really, the analytics appealed to me because it was taking something that was a problem I was experiencing and offering me very quantitative feedback that I could then use to personalize my sleep experience to make it better.

And so then on top of all that, the guy that worked with me was so personable and nice and great at being a salesperson and handle the whole experience in an amazing way. So [00:15:00] all of that combined is really what. led to the purchase and I’m, you know, happy with it. I don’t know, 120 days later, I’m thrilled.

Like I wouldn’t change it. It’s great. 

Matt: That’s awesome. I was going to say, Dave, I had, I had a very similar experience, not with sleep number, but this is what kind of. Sure. just kinda queued up the idea for our, our marketing or marketing kind of by the numbers talk, our version that we submitted before.

They said, Hey, you guys need to like knock this out together. And so I’m standing in target and. I’m looking at this wall. I was, I had gone down the aisle, I was specifically looking for RX bars and I liked the little protein RX bar is, they have really like minimal ingredients each right on the front of the package.

And I’m standing there, I went down, went down the aisle to pick those up and I just kind of took a step back and it was an entire aisle. [00:16:00] All, I mean, I came from a retail background, so I was impressed that all the boxes were flushed to the edge and it looked, it was great, but you look down the aisle and it was a sea of essentially protein and granola bars down this entire aisle at target and everything just bled together.

Yeah. And, and I, I literally took my phone out. And took a picture of it. And it was about, and to me, that moment was everything today and the, the amount of information that’s produced, the amount that people shop, you think about how people are programmed today and they go, they don’t just, if you’re buying your, your mattress, you mentioned you shopped and shopped and shopped and shopped for it.

What do you think? And it’s an expensive mattress, but it’s no house. Right. If it is, then I need to understand a little bit more about this mattress, 

Meredith: right? No, it is. No, it is not on [00:17:00] the level of a house. And I’m really teasing about the car. but that just is, are expensive. I mean, it’s several thousand dollars.

Yeah, 

Matt: absolutely. Yeah. And so if we look at. From a buyer’s perspective. And that was kind of that aha moment for me of this is what we need to talk about. And you look at it from a buyer’s perspective. The buyer journey is more fragmented today than it ever has been in the past. And, and, w one of the things that.

Well, I’ll, we’ll talk about more, especially on Tuesday.  IBS. by the way, shameless plug, Tuesday at 1245 to one 45, so make sure you attend it. but one of the things we’ll talk about for me is. It depends, right? So we have to stand out from the sea of competition, the sea of granola bars and protein bars that all look the same.

And the buyer journey is so fragmented along the way, and you start looking and comparing all of these metrics. If you don’t. [00:18:00] No, what to compare it to or how to team it up with it. You can go, you can go hold down a different rabbit hole. That’s completely different direction than where you need to be.

And so when you start looking at these, the marketing by the numbers, the metrics, the analytics that I’m so passionate about and love so dearly, I mean, I, I do. But everything. If you don’t pair it with the right thing, it doesn’t matter. Right? So it’s like, well, what does this mean? Well, it depends. It depends on what I’m pairing this up with.

Meredith: Yeah. It’s the context of the data. And so I tell you know our clients all the time, look, if your bounce rate for your website is way outside the range that we typically see. If there’s a reason for that, a strategy behind that, a plausible explanation, the context of that number, then okay. Right. Okay. So I think one thing that [00:19:00] in pre prep for this.

That Dave and Matt and I are very much in agreement on is while we are going to be sharing competitive benchmarks, shameless plug, you gotta be there to get them. We are going to be sharing competitive benchmarks of kind of where you want to hit on everything from website performance to digital ad, conversions to, you know, Dave’s going to really dive in on the, lead conversion and attribution side.

Yeah. We’re are going to share our benchmarks, but you have to understand that’s all they are. And without context to your local market, your target buyer, your budget, that stuff could really be mishandled. So we’re opening Pandora’s box a bit here and taking your risk that you guys are going to be smart enough and, not you guys, listeners, you guys are gonna be smart enough to.

Take what we’re saying and put it in the proper [00:20:00] framework before you just run out and do something crazy with your digital ads and then blame us because you don’t have any sales. 

Matt: Well, a perfect example of that is I was just having this conversation like two hours ago with a builder and that we were talking about, you know, direct correlation from, in this example, it was Facebook ads to conversion.

Like. What’s the, what’s a good percentage from Lee, you know, a conversion percentage to leave. And, and as we dive into it, it’s like, it’s not that one to one direct correlation anymore. And if we know, this is the example, if we know that, it’s 12 months to 18 months, people are, are passively looking for homes in the, they’re in the market to just kind of figure that out.

But the lookback that Google gives us is only 90 days. And Google analytics, we can only see 90 days back of what that buyer journey looks like. And [00:21:00] just in that piece itself is so fragmented and we’re not even getting the, the other 75% of the buyer journey picture inside of Google analytics. 

Meredith: So, Dave, I’ve got a question for you.

when you are implementing lasso and helping people. Start to, yeah, just really organize their data and get a hold on their results. You know? What are some of the pieces of advice that you give as far as what’s pay attention to whatnot? How to put it in context? I mean, what’s your perspective from the CRM side?

Dave: Well, you know, I, I have a, a tendency to look at really the, the conversion rates, and that’s something that I focus a lot on. But I also look at the cost of leads a lot. Meredith. And, and really looking at, you know, how much we’re spending on a lead source compared to what the, you know, what the actual results are.

And when we talk about leads, you know, we start to get into some, some [00:22:00] terminology like MQL and SQL leads. And I think moving forward into 20, 20, these will be much more relevant leads, or, or terms, you know, marketing qualified or sales qualified because we have so many different lead sources that.

Are driving marketing qualified leads, like we’re spending money on Facebook ads, for example, but those people aren’t necessarily sales qualified leads yet. So we really have to put some determination between, a marketing lead and a, and, and a sales lead. But that being said, there’s still a cost to, to, to all of these registrants.

So, you know, it’s imperative that even though we are getting. Leads in that are coming from Facebook, that are coming from all of the different media sources out there. that would, that we can put a hard cost associated with them understanding what the spend is, but also recognizing that each, each of our customers, regardless of of the source, is unique and they need to have a very, very specific methodology for followup.

And that’s kind of the, one of the things, fortunately in a CRM that I do get to see the correlation between [00:23:00] lead follow up. Compared to conversions. so, you know, we get lead sources, then we get two conversions of a, of an MQL to an SQL, and then we can look at actually a conversion from a, from a, a lead to an appointment, and then an appointment to a sale.

And we get to kind of see all of those numbers. so when I talk to our customers, it’s really imperative that they understand that, you know, lead cost is, is imperative. salespeople tend to, Not see value in marketing qualified leads many times. So even though it’s a lead in their database, they don’t necessarily see value in it.

So that’s one of the real challenges that I have is just implementing processes that really focus on both MQL is as well as SQLs. And when I look at an SQL, I see somebody who is registering on a builder’s website, for example. somebody who has been on that site multiple times and has really taken the journey to the point of registering.

And then from there, being able to have the conversation from how long between a registration to, to first contact, to [00:24:00] appointment, to, to, to sale essentially. So we’re going to be going through all of those thresholds as, as we talked through this, through this presentation. But, but even before that, Meredith, A lot of times, even when we’re looking at like site signage for example, right? And we always get the question, you know, when do we put up site signage? When do we start, you know, collecting leads in, in, in our database. And just seeing the correlation between leads that are registering. Like if we’re doing a, a presale, a six month presale, we’re not gonna be selling for six months.

So we put site signage up six months prior to put a website up there and started gathering leads. What’s the percentage of leads that will purchase within, you know. They’re the ones that registered right away compared to the ones that registered 30 days prior to launch. And it will blow your mind to see the correlation between people that registered 30 days prior to lunch.

Compared to people that registered, you know, five months prior to launch and actually who is still engaging, even though they have, they have registered. So we’ll be looking at all of these numbers and really getting a [00:25:00] sense of, digital marketing, but as well as site signage and really, you know, gathering information and then who is actually buying.

and when did they, you know, when did they provide us with their information? And then subsequent to that, what have we done with those people? up until that point. 

Meredith: You know, as a sidebar, on our program for just a second. You know, one of the things that I love about collaborating cause we, we, the three of us.

Work in our silo, right, of our company. But then when we get to collaborate like this, it’s like, Oh my God, we are living parallel lives. 

Matt: Like 

Meredith: those conversations you were just talking about, you’re constantly having, I might’ve had five of those today already. It’s just, it’s good to hear. It is reaffirming, you know?

But, that’s good stuff. I mean. I want to learn more about that. Are you going to, you’re covering that. 

Dave: I’m covering that. And it’s really imperative that we do have 

Meredith: considered that 

[00:26:00] Dave: because not, not every lead is equal, nor take Facebook leads, for example. people that really don’t even. They don’t even know that the builder exists or that the product exists, or what’s happening within that Facebook ad.

All they, you know, they, they were targeted based on their demographic, their geographical, they, all of the kind of criteria that we target Facebook, ads with. and then people who are registering from Facebook leads. What is, you know, what is the conversion rate for a Facebook lead? I. I’ve got those types of stats and we can really see it, but it really depends many times on what is the followup that is happening with a Facebook group.

Right. 

Meredith: And I can. Perfect. The digital ads, the website, we can work on all those metrics. I mean, we could like kill ourselves doing all of that and then at the end of the day, if that lead followup isn’t happening, we don’t have any sales. 

Matt: It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. 

Dave: Does not, does not matter. And you know, the nice thing about [00:27:00] kind of taking all of this data that that lasso has and really aggregating is that is I can really see the correlation between if somebody registers from Zillow, from VDX, from a builder’s website, from Facebook, and just seeing, it’s almost like sales agents.

We’ll put, we’ll put a value on a lead. And the value is based on, on a gut and experience. and it really has nothing to do with consumer experience, anything like that, or where consumers are shopping or anything. So typically they will. they will exclude a great number of the leads in their database just based on their gut or, or, or their experience.

And what we really need to do as marketers is really emphasize that every lead is important. Every lead has that cost. When we start talking about cost and actual dollars per lead. That usually strikes up, especially with sales and marketing managers with a builder, right? That, that usually sparks a conversation of, yeah, we can’t let our sales people determine who they’re going to follow up with.

We have to have methodology for each. but we also have to, you know, understand that, that, that, we can expect [00:28:00] better results. if we do a better job marketing and we have a better quality of lead that’s actually coming in from our, from our different sources that, that you guys do every single day.

Matt: I want to piggyback on what you were saying there for a second, Dave, and then I want to, I want to throw this back out to both of you to see, to see if you agree. There’s some, there can be so much emphasis. This is where the, it depends saying comes into play, but there can be so much emphasis on cost per lead.

that can get a little dangerous actually. And the reason I say that is I’ll have, I, I, I, it’s budget season or we’re wrapping up budget season and get a lot of conversations about what should, by average costs, like for budgeting purposes, what should my average cost per lead be? And I would say, well, really that.

So it depends on the community and it really doesn’t matter. And they’re like, wait a minute, what do you mean? Cost per lead doesn’t matter. And I said, so we’re talking about, you know, let’s say these, you’ve got these 15 communities and 10 of them [00:29:00] are performing well, they’re on, they’re on target. You expect them to continue to be on target.

And those 10 we can really talk about and hone in how we get more efficient from a cost per lead and a cost per sale basis. But the other five that you have, you’re behind. Yup. So who cares? Your cost per lead doesn’t matter because you’re behind your sales plan, and we’ve got to get us, we’ve got to 

Meredith: hit pace first.

Matt: Once we hit pace, and then we get on goal consistently, then we can talk about how we can dial in and better determine and get a better cost per lead and cost per sale. So what do you, what do you guys think about that? 

Meredith: Yeah, I’m in. I like to have my benchmarks. I like to have my ranges, you know, they, they help guide me when someone asks, is it better ROI to spend money here on this channel versus that channel?

And I think that that way you have [00:30:00] informed advice to give to people, but at the same time, yeah, if you’re sitting on a community that has 20 on the ground and it hadn’t moved and they’re about to have a birthday. Who cares? We just need to sell houses, you know? So, I don’t personally, the way that I advise and consult, I don’t get too caught up in that either.

I’m a little bit more big picture. Like, this is how many we have to sell to hit our goal for the year. This is how much money we’ve got. I mean, the budget number really doesn’t change, frankly, unfortunately. So. But again, I like to know the number, Dave. I do, because I do think it informs and guides us to make smarter choices.

Dave: And when we talk about benchmarks, Meredith, I mean there, there are some standard benchmarks with that. All builders work with them, and it’s usually, you know, in our case, so we need to have people that to sell to. Okay. So, if we, we are going to sell to just over 5% of our database. Okay. So in any community, [00:31:00] we are going to sell to 5% of those people in the database.

So it’s a pretty simple math equation that if we have, if we have a hundred homes to sell, we know. What the amount of leads that we need in the database. Now, how we achieve those leads and how much we spend on those leads is really, what, what we’re going to be, what we’re going to be discussing.

But at the end of the day, we need people in our database. 95% of those people are not going to buy from us. So we just need to ensure that we’ve got enough people in there to equate to the amount of homes that we have for sale. 

Meredith: Home building is that the land decision, the product decision, the pricing decision that greatly impacts cost per lead is something that happens so far ahead of when unfortunately, sales and marketing are generally engaged in the process that we’re just reacting to the product location and price point you have given me to sell.

Yeah. And sometimes that [00:32:00] product in that, at that price, in that location is going to have a cost per lead triple what? I could do it somewhere else. Oh, it’s so all real estate is local is so matter so much when you’re trying to compare numbers. So again, Matt saying about it depends, yes is important. But this is where, and I think maybe what we can talk about next would be.

What kind of, what can you walk away from if you come to the program? Like what are our goals for the program? You know, and I know my goal is not to just give out a set of numbers and everybody go, Oh, we’re either failing. Or succeeding based on this. I’m more wanting to influence people to become more numbers driven as an organization from a marketing perspective, just to figure out their own numbers and be confident in them and be able to give them in context.

This is why we did [00:33:00] what we did and it was a reasonable decision, not just somebody told me or. I heard it on a podcast, no kid kidding that I should be spending thousands of dollars on X and it’s not really based on any informed decision. So that’s why I’m hoping people can do, is come away with a framework of we could sleep number our marketing.

Yup. Moving forward. Yeah. And that would be an amazing goal for your marketing team for 2020 

Dave: yeah, I totally agree, Meredith. I think having benchmarks is important. So we should know industry open rates for emails, for example, and what our industry click through rates, what, what can we do? The dark, 

Meredith: you’re just in your silo and you’re like, I hope this is good.

I don’t know. 

Dave: Yeah. Yup, that’s exactly it. But you know, just digging in a little bit deeper, and that’s really what I hope we’re going to be able to provide is, is putting some metrics in place that maybe [00:34:00] people didn’t even understand existed. 

Meredith: And what are your, what is your goal or your, what are you wanting people to walk away from with 

Matt: or, yeah.

For me, it’s really about, okay, we can tr everybody knows. They at least know they can track stuff, right? We, I can see this data. I expect to track things. But what is, what is the things that are, that are we’re looking at, what does it tell me I need to change? What adjustments do I need to make because of that data, right?

How do I marry up the right pieces of the puzzle together? Or how do I get the right right ingredients of the chili recipe in there, mixing it altogether so the chili tastes just right and. Not just go, okay, I’m going to look at this piece of information in a silo and I’m going to start making decisions based on this one thing.

Having really no idea how [00:35:00] this impacts or the domino effect of all these other pieces. So it’s understanding 

Meredith: the data. 

Matt: Letting it tell us a story and then having under better understanding of what we need to adjust because of that information. 

Meredith: Yeah. I sat in a Google analytics master class recently, and the instructor really hit on.

It’s the insights from the data. It’s the, as you say, what’s next steps? It’s the analyzing of the data. And of course, this was a class for agency people like myself. And the point he was making is people aren’t paying you to spit out reports with numbers on it. they’re paying you for the . Insights and the analyzing and the let’s nets and, and, and I don’t think that we’ll be able to turn people who don’t look at this every single day cause it changes constantly.

We’re [00:36:00] not all trying to turn you into master Google marketers. But if we could teach you the questions to ask, if we could teach you the thought process, if we could teach you some of the basic data and how to interpret it and what to do next, like Matt is saying is so important, then I think that could be useful.

Two people. 

Matt: Oh, it’s going to, it’s going to be huge. If you know, at least know the questions to ask. You’re just going to put you on the, on the right path. 

Meredith: Right? Cause all three of us have seen, reports from other marketing companies that had really impressive looking numbers. I mean, amazing numbers on them and it looks like it.

And you just, and you looked at it and you’re like. This. None of this means anything. Yeah. And if you’re not in this doing this every day, okay. Your expertise is building homes and selling homes. How do you know to question what you’re looking at is if this is [00:37:00] even valid or matters, do these numbers even matter?

To me, it’s just a fancy looking report with. Hi big numbers. And it’s like, I don’t know, did that sell a house? 

Matt: I don’t know. My favorite is a, you spent $5,000 last month on your name, just so you know, like, yeah, that performed really well, by the way. 

Meredith: You know? So, yeah, exactly. So I think, in striving to just always getting better and refining what we’re doing.

I think knowing what questions, ask, knowing what to challenge, being able to put some of this in context would be great. Which is a very tall order for a 50 minute program and three speakers. However, shameless plug here. So once you come to the program on Tuesday, at what time, Matt. It’s 

Matt: it hold on 1245 to one faith.

Meredith: Okay. Then [00:38:00] I got to do after that is coming over to sales central, which is the hospitality room of the national sales and marketing council, and there’s usually some drinks and food and all kinds of good stuff in there and within, I dunno, another hour or so, we’re going to have an open forum Q and a. On our program, we will have no slides prepared or you will have no scripts.

So you better come with some questions are otherwise, it’s going to be really boring. 

Matt: I’m to float around the room and I have questions on the fly. 

Meredith: Stump the chump, baby, let’s go. So, you know, so yeah, so there’s going to be extended Q and a in sales central in the afternoon. I forget what time, but we’ll figure it out.

But yeah, just come and hang out. We’ll be there. And I’ll be good to answer for you to really dig in because sometimes people’s questions are where you learn the most stuff. 

Dave: Yeah, I agree in that, you know, really, really, for the [00:39:00] audience, really take advantage of the knowledge that is, that is in that room as well.

Right. Meredith? I mean, there, there are so many smart people who are very focused on, on, on what they do. And I know that the three of us certainly are, but also at sales center, the central, you know, there’s, all of our colleagues are there to, to share and that, that, that’s really what, what. IBS is, is all about right?

In the education sessions is really just sharing some amazing information. And like you say, Meredith, we’re just, we’re just going to scratch the surface. I think we’re going to really hit on some key points, but that’s really scratching the surface. And I think until people start to, you know, they’re, they’re going to think for themselves a little bit and then they’ll come up with some additional questions that are really specific to their scenario and really be able to help them, take the information that, that they get and utilize it moving forward.

Where as in many education sessions. People leave, leave the, the, the, the session and, you know, 99% of the information that they just, that they just had was lost. So hopefully this will provide, a little bit more knowledge, but then some great followup in addition.  

[00:40:00] Matt: absolutely. No question for me. I know that I, I mean, I was a builder for 15 years and this is my 17th.

Year in the industry. I know, I know is my beard is graying, 

Meredith: but we don’t talk about that. We don’t. 

Matt: That’s all right. That’s all right. But for me, the builder show, and this is what I always loved about any, like the builder show PCBC any of our industry conferences, you’re working, but you’re not in the office.

And you, I call it free thinking time because I got some of my best ideas at IBS in a presentation that had nothing to do with what the person on stage was saying, but what they said sparked a thought and I was like, yeah. Oh my gosh. And it sent me down a whole nother direction, and I was like, what’d you get out of that session that I need to do this, this, this, and this?

Like they didn’t even talk about that. And I’m [00:41:00] like, I know that they said a word, and it just like the light bulb went off and, and so that’s what I hope for, for everybody that’s listening. When you’re there, be. Just kind of that free thinking time and be a sponge and there is so much information to be, to be learned, not just an hour session or the actual sessions that are happening, but from your colleagues and peers that are in the halls.

It’s, it’s unbelievable. 

Meredith: I tell people all the time, when you’re in sales central in between presentations and just chat, everybody’s chatting and you meet. The VP of sales and marketing for such and such a builder in a city across the country from you. Once you, you know, ask how their holidays were and some basic chit chat, ask them, what is the number one thing you’re doing that’s working right now?

Like, don’t be bold. Ask people, and, and if they don’t want to talk shop and go, they’re fine. Don’t be. Bothersome about it. But [00:42:00] I love to give people the opportunity for me. I know y’all won’t believe this, but to shut up and ask them and let them just start talking to me, because I come out of the builder show every year with a list of stuff that I’m like, Oh boy, we got to work on this with our clients.

Like, this is, these are priorities. You know, I’m like, you. So I would say, Despite the late nights and the parties and all the stuff. try to just be present enough that when the idea hits, like Maddis adjusting, you’re, you’re firing and you’re writing. And then just don’t get overwhelmed with what you want to do out of it because you really could get completely overwhelmed.

you don’t throw everything away when you get home. You don’t fire all your people like you pick one or two major initiatives that you want to tackle and then move those forward. 

Matt: Absolutely. And then when the builder show’s over, I come home, I lock myself in a dark room, and I don’t speak for three days.

Meredith: No, [00:43:00] there’s no speaking. If there’s no talking, there’s no makeup, there’s no high heels. There is a lot of sleeping 

Matt: on the sleep number bed. You’re going to know exactly what you need to work on. 

Meredith: It’s amazing. It’s fantastic. But yeah, it’s just, it’s exhausting, but good. 

Matt: Dave, what about you? 

Dave: My ritual. Post 

Matt: host IBS.

What’s your ritual? 

Dave: Oh, post IBS. Well,

up around noon. Matt does this daily and have lunch around one until three and then I shut it down for the day. So that’s usually

viewed ECI right now.

W what this typically does when, when when you leave. what you’ve just been exposed to is just some, some, some fabulous people, some great friends and partners, but you’re just, I always walk out of there, just absolutely amazed at the new technologies that are [00:44:00] available. the level of education that is, that is provided for really for, for free.

And 

Meredith: what also.

Dave: People don’t necessarily take advantage of it. And that’s, that’s something that I just really want to emphasize is use this as, as your university for, for the year, because we get so caught up, you know, the date that we get home from IBS, we just get caught right back up in our day to day lives that we don’t take time to educate ourselves necessarily because, so we really need to rely on the people that, that we meet and the vendors that, that, that we utilize, the partners that we have, to provide ongoing education.

And certainly, Getting all those people together in one session is, is absolutely, I mean, what an opportunity for, for everybody, me included, I just, I just walk out of there amazed and I take a lot of what I learned and I share it with our customers and it’s really something, and then it just makes me even even more of, of an expert moving forward.

And I, and I like to share that information with, with our customers. 

Matt: Yeah. Totally agree. Okay. All [00:45:00] right. That was a ton of fun and I hope you guys felt the energy that through your car speakers or your iPhone or wherever you’re listening to this, you felt the energy that are, that that we’re hoping our presentation’s going to bring, in Las Vegas and you come check it out.

It is going to be, it’s, I feel like it’s going to be one of the strongest programs there. And with these two, with Meredith and Dave, it can’t, I can’t help but be one of the strongest programs there. And I’m incredibly lucky to share the stage with you guys and I love to always, I’m going to, I’m going to end this episode like I like to end our episodes when we have a guest on the show is I want to ask you both a couple of quick like fire off rapid fire questions.

These are super simple. Meredith, what book are you reading? What are you binge-watching and what is your, what podcast are you listening to? 

Meredith: Okay, so books that I just finished is radical [00:46:00] candor. How to be a kickass boss without losing your humanity. So that’s what I’m . That’s what I just finished reading.

I love the digital version so much. I bought the hardback and the audio and I’ve listened twice and I’m totally getting it, so that’s awesome. I’m binge-watching Yellowstone, which is great. Kevin Costner’s never been better. He’s awesome. And. Podcast wise. you know, I don’t mind sharing. I’m a person of faith and spirituality, and so I’ve got a couple of Tony Evans, I’ve got a couple faith-based podcasts that I listened to pretty regularly trying to keep myself on the right path.

Matt: I love it. Those are great. And I did my just finished radical candor as well. Great book. 

Meredith: So good. And it’s really pretty simple. It’s not a hard concept, but, I’ll be honest, for those of us that do have a people pleasing issue and also maybe raised Southern to be nice and whatever, I don’t think I’m, I [00:47:00] don’t think I am serving my team as well as I could by being more direct.

And. Giving them the information, the feedback they need to be better. I’m actually doing them a disservice, and that’s what I learned from the book. So lots out. 

Matt: Here we go. All right. Okay, Dave vecher, what book are you reading? What are you binge watching? And if you, if you listen to podcast, what’s your favorite podcast?

Dave: I listened to a lot of podcasts, probably too many. There’s too many conflicting information. So one of my favorites right now is a, is Chad podcast. Cannibal, 

Matt: Matt Cannonball moments. 

Dave: Yeah. I, I got a lot of enjoyment out of listening to a, out of listening to Chad. I think he’s got a very, you know, him and I are similar in a lot of ways.

I think we’ve been down a lot of different paths and I think his perspective is just really one that, that I appreciate. So I love chats. Now I’m, I, I like to keep. My podcasts kind of late as well. So I do listen to Adam [00:48:00] Corolla quite a bit, and I find him very, 

and sometimes these, his views are conflicting to mind, but I like his, his combination of con, of, of, Honest, political, candor, but also combined with a little bit of humor. So that’s, so that, that’s kinda a, that’s kinda neat. Now, I had never watched Dexter before, and, for those of you that haven’t seen it, I’m just binge watching that. And it’s, it’s almost. I find myself much of it. Boy, it’s, it is exciting to, it’s exciting to watch now for reading.

I, I spent a lot of time reading and for the most part, and, this kinda is going to sound a little odd. I read a lot of white papers. I, I read a ton of white papers from, from, from our industry. A lot. And, so there isn’t really a book that I am, that I’m, that I’m focused on right now. I mean, we’ve all read, life is short, buy the shoes, right?

We’ve, we’ve all read that many times. but you know, very similar to, to Meredith, where you’ve really got a, a, a, you know, a focus. And that is not necessarily. [00:49:00] Business-related, but it’s more personal. I, I certainly like to focus in on, on those types of books as well in terms of personal growth. So that’s kind of where, where I’m, where I’m going right now.

yeah, let’s hear your story, man. 

Matt: Yeah. So, real quick, just so everybody gives everybody some context. So, Meredith and Dave and I can see each other. We’re on video, and so Dave’s a life is short. Buy the shoes is an inside joke from the beginning of our meeting today because, List, so you can see the title behind Meredith.

It says, life is short. Buy the shoes. Well, ironically enough, she has a like a book stopper up there that’s a red high heel. And we started the video off and Dave asks what that book was behind her. And let’s just say that the red shoe was covering the essence shoes. And it said buy the shoes, but the S was missing.

So I, I’m just gonna leave that out there for everyone. And just to give you some context of what that Dave doesn’t really read books about, buy the shoes, but that’s what that means. 

Meredith: I don’t want my [00:50:00] son, I also have, you know, you guys can’t see this, but I also have a. Shoe fund bank behind me, on my bookshelves.

So I actually have a piggy bank that says, new shoe fund, and you people can put money in it. And so far Allen’s only put a dollar 

Matt: in. It only looks like it has a buck in their marriage.

Okay. All right. Okay. So for me, the book, I’m currently wrapping up, listening to a book, and so on, audible. So the infinite game by Simon Simon Sinek, Synnex Sinek, I can’t, how does he say his last name? Anybody know.

Really, really good. And I just finished radical candor. so I’m now listening to the infinite game by Simon Sinek, my binge-watch. I just finished it. I don’t, it’s interesting. I get my binge watching my TV shows in when I’m doing cardio at the gym. I actually enjoy running on the treadmill because I know people [00:51:00] say they hate that.

I like it because I get to put my phone on there and I get my TV time. And so. I have just finished, been binge-watching Watchman on HBO. It’s 

Dave: very cool 

Matt: if you’ve, if you saw the movie, it’s based on a comic series, but, it’s actually, it was like one of the best rated. Well illustrated books, like ever written, as a comic book.

And so anyway, I’ve never seen the comic, but there they did a movie like a decade ago. They just redid the series. It’s fantastic. It’s really weird. But if you like really weird stuff and you’d love it, and then. The book. And then, what was my last, my only question podcasts besides building perspective?

No, just kidding. I don’t listen to my self. I hate my own voice. I, I have, I listened to a ton of different things and I rotate. So I really like Seth Golden’s akimbo I listen, Gary V gets mixed in there. I like, I get in there, [00:52:00] there’s one called the wag wag podcast. it’s more of a overall, like fitness and health podcasts and kind of life.

And another one that I listened to a lot is one of my favorites. It’s called how to with Charles Dewig. So Charles Duhigg, wrote the power of habit. unbelievable book, one of my top five favorite books. And he’s got, it’s, it’s produced by slate. but it’s with how to, and what he does is he gets people, people write in or call in to him that have a problem.

Like, you know, regular people. Like Matt Riley has a problem and he calls out, call up Charles, and I say, Hey, I’ve got a problem. I’m trying to figure this out. Well, he goes out and finds an, an expert in that field and like, essentially, like. Puts together congruent interviews to help coach them through what their issue is.

And it can be really fun things. One, the first one was a, how to be funnier, and it was, or how to be funny. It was a, like a Baptist priest in Oklahoma who was trying to get better at humor to relay his message to his [00:53:00] congregation. So he goes out, Charles goes out and gets a, a Jewish New York comedian to help.

This a Baptist preacher, relate better to his congregation. It was really, really good. Another one was how to Rob a bank. He literally interviewed a bank robber that had been in prison for like 30 years. That now helps authorities like avert bank robbery. how to donate a kidney. It’s 

Meredith: the craziest

and gives your brain a break. Yeah. I 

Matt: love it. Anyway, so that’s what I have going on my docket. And anyway, I always think it’s fun to end on a, on a fun note like that. And then also people listening go get to hear what other super smart people are listening to and reading, reading about. Right. And.

Anything that Dave and Meredith both just said, but the books, what they’re reading, what they’re listening to, I buy it right now. Go subscribe [00:54:00] to it right now because they’re incredibly smart people and you want to be following with their following. So. Awesome. Alright guys. Well, thank you both so much for being on the episode and I cannot wait to see you both in Vegas in just a few weeks.

Meredith: It’s going to be great. It’s going to 

Dave: be awesome looking forward to it. 

Matt: All right. Thanks so much 

Meredith: guys. .