[00:00:00] Mollie: You know, we’re doing well right now as an industry. So right now the opportunity is branding. And I think in our industry, part of why we are not considered the most cutting edge is we don’t fully understand the value of branding. So what happens is we think, Oh, the market’s good. We’re doing great. And that means we can stop.

Marketing and that’s, that is not, that is not how any other industry things your brand is. This thing that is evolving and is, should always have a voice. And I think our big takeaway is be proactive, knowing that sentiments are, are. Strange right now. everyone is looking forward to the new year. Home is a place of safety and, and we can leverage that.

and that if we all builders are not going to have the same message, it depends on if you have inventory. It depends on [00:01:00] if you’re pre-selling, it depends on where your, what market you’re building in. If you have attached housing or detached housing, I mean, there are so many variables that. are going to influence your message for this time of year.

And it just, it takes some, thoughtful planning. So that’s, that’s my big thing. Thoughtful planning.

Matt: Hi, and welcome to building perspective with Matt Riley and Mollie Elkman,

Mollie: we’re here to bring value to you and your team by exploring all things, sales and marketing related,

Matt: all for different perspectives. All right, and welcome back to another episode. Of building perspective [00:02:00] and as always, sometimes always, I have my illustrious cohost with me today.

Mollie, Mollie. Welcome back.

Mollie: Hello. I think you say welcome back every time we do a podcast.

Matt: Well, cause I feel like our, our, I feel like our podcasts have been a little sporadic lately, so it’s welcome back to both of them.

Mollie: Oh, I like that. Also. I had been in the woods quite a bit. So a few podcasts, from the Pocono mountains.

but right now I’m back in, Philly’s sitting in the group two office and there is no one here except for me.

Matt: That’s awesome. I love it. Yeah. Well, and honestly, like our podcasts have been, we’ve done one or two a month versus one a week lately. And, and honestly the reason is because everything’s been mainly so good.

There’s not been a lot of like, other than us just getting on here and listening to ourselves talk, there’s not been a ton of relevant key information. So that’s when we’ve really been coming in and making sure that we’re really adding [00:03:00] value and not just coming on here just for the sake of talking.

Mollie: Absolutely. And we have a lot to talk about today. I know, I know we have some like current events let’s start with that, but then. let’s kind of get into where, you know, the buyer mindset is and how builders can be proactive, knowing what is coming up with, you know, the election and the holidays and the new year.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. I am dubbing today’s topic. COVID phase two.

Mollie: All right.

Matt: There’s a lot happening under that. COVID phase two. We’ll get to that in a minute. okay. So I saw two things, things that I think are noteworthy from a article news events kind of thing. The first one on his Instagram turns 10 years old today.

That’s

Mollie: crazy. Doesn’t that make you feel old though?

Matt: Really old. And it makes me feel even older than I I’ve only been on Instagram for a couple of years. Cause I just don’t like it.

Mollie: I [00:04:00] like Instagram. I like to look at everyone’s pictures. I actually, I look at Instagram more than Facebook.

Matt: Do you know why?

I think I don’t like Instagram is because you can create your own wackadoo, a username. And I have a hard time remembering who the hell

Mollie: I agree with that sometimes I’m like, how am I connected to this person who is this?

Matt: Yeah. And I’m like, wait, wait. And then I have to like click on the profile and go, try to figure out who it is.

And so I think that’s what I don’t like about Instagram is I can’t always tell who’s who, but anyway, Instagram turns 10. And I remember having this conversation a few years ago when Facebook turned 10, but you think about that as a whole. You think about what Instagram is, what it evolved, what it has evolved into the massive usage that it has.

And just to think 10 years ago it didn’t exist. I mean, there are like miniature economies. [00:05:00] And, and real businesses that exist solely because of Instagram’s existence.

Mollie: Yeah. It really, it has evolved. I’m kind of stuck on what you said a second ago, where you said a few years ago when Facebook turned 10, because that was more than a few years ago.

Facebook turning 20 in a few years.

Matt: Oh yeah, you’re right. So

Mollie: it just it’s, it is strange, especially for, you know, gen Xers to think about like, just think about this. Like how long ago was the nineties.

Matt: Oh, it’s yeah, that, that hurts my brain. well, yeah, J O talk about Facebook and Instagram. When Facebook bought Instagram for a billion dollars with a B, and you think about that was a steal.

Everybody was losing their minds when they thought, when they saw that Facebook bought Instagram for a billion dollars. [00:06:00] And now you look back on it and you’re like, they got off cheap on that purchase. Yeah.

Mollie: It is pretty crazy. One of the things as from user standpoint on Instagram, and I know that’s not our topic today, but I do think that from a marketing standpoint, there is something to learn from some of the influencers.

So I know for me, when I first started using Instagram, I really was looking at the people I’m connected to. But once you start to look, more than just like the search mode and just. Kind of look at what’s trending and influencers on different topics. It really is, a good way to tap into consumer mindset and just like what is interesting to people.

It’s also a, it’s a funny way to see how you specifically are being targeted. So, sure. And I have been talking a lot about, you know, her potentially getting engaged soon and her. you know, she sent me a picture of a wedding dress. She liked, you know, that kind of stuff. And now I’m getting ads [00:07:00] as if I haven’t been married for a decade.

It’s like engagement rings and wedding dresses. And I’m like, Oh my gosh. So it is, you know, there is something to be learned from that from a marketing standpoint, though.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely crazy. Crazy. Instagram turns, 10 doubles, well digits. So think back of when you first started your Instagram account and now think back of during COVID, how many worthless Instagram slash Facebook, purchases have you made online that you really didn’t need things at all?

You got sucked in, you bought a shirt or a sweatshirt or a hat, or I don’t know, whatever shoes. All the stuff that they sell

Mollie: except shipping it probably still hasn’t arrived yet.

Matt: I got something not too long ago that I ordered at the beginning of shutdown.

Mollie: Oh yeah. We so many canceled orders or like a piece of an order.

I mean, it’s like, it’s like kind of like a [00:08:00] guessing game, like, will this show up or not?

Matt: It’s wacky. Okay. All right. Topic number two. And I don’t know if, you guys have seen this or not, but, Inman sent out an email, two emails actually yesterday. but it’s about, NAR national national association of realtors and a court case.

And this is all about, about a year or so ago, some sellers pulled together and they sued the local MLSs slash national association of realtors for price fixing on commissions, specifically the buyer’s agent and saying that it is driving up. Unnecessarily commissions to the seller because of this blanket agreement that the MLS is force, and the buyers agent force the seller to sign.

It’s just this blanket commission that says, all right, I’m going to pay any buyer’s agent. X [00:09:00] dollars to bring me a prospect, or bring me up, bring me a sale, not a prospect, bring me a sale. And so obviously NAR jumps in, they try to, you know, they, whatever the legal term is that they’re going to go in and file some type of injunction to, get this, get this potential case thrown out well yesterday, a federal court said, Nope, we’re not dismissing this case.

They’re going to have to take this thing. To court and they’re going to have to defend it. And this could be a really, really big shakeup in our industry. I think there’s a couple of things happening within the industry right now that can, in a, in the matter of a couple of years can really make a big impact.

One Zillow is starting their own brokerage with their own employees and all the homes. That they currently are buying. They’re going to sell their themselves, not through a local real estate company. Like they have been before and now, this whole shakeup, like this could, this could essentially do away with buyer’s agents altogether, [00:10:00] right?

Yeah. Because what’s going to happen is the buyer is going to have to pay the buyer’s agent out of their own pocket. Right. Instead of the seller being responsible. For that feat, which I do believe is, is correct. Like the way it’s set up right now is completely backwards. Like where else do you know? Like essentially as a seller, I’m paying the commission to someone who’s negotiating against me.

Mollie: Yeah. It is really interesting. I. I think this is something we’re going to obviously need to follow really closely. And I agree with you. I think that things are changing up in our industry and that, that really leads into some of what we want to talk about today. Because the other thing that no matter what, what is going to affect our industry is who is the next president or who.

Who wins this election. So, and, and it affects housing in, in a variety of ways. One in particular that has [00:11:00] my attention is, there are different views on affordable housing. And I think that that could change a lot of things. And it’s, it’s a big issue. I know here in Philadelphia, it’s a huge issue.

And, I, I know our, our listeners all have an opinion. And what, what is really, just for a moment of reflection is cause we, most people have an opinion. They have a strong opinion. But 50% of the world or the country has the opposing opinion. So there is this, you know, proactive feeling of looking forward.

We all want to, everyone wants, you know, the outcome that they want, but I think we’re all kind of in this place where there’s, there’s a pretty good. Chance that the opposite may happen. And it’s a very strange feeling to feel like. You [00:12:00] are the minority in your mindset of what you think about all these big issues.

So, that’s something that Matt and I talk a lot about because in order to understand your buyer, you definitely need to tap into their mindset. And a lot of that is tapping into your own mindset. So, you know, we’ve, we’ve been talking quite a bit about that.

Matt: Yeah. Well, all right. So let me kind of set the table here for this, for this topic and why say, you know, I’m dubbing this COVID round two because there’s a lot under that umbrella, right?

So we have literally a wave, two of COVID that everyone is said we’re going to have, because regardless of when a vaccine is approved, it’s going to be. More than likely summertime of next year until it’s readily available to the general population. Okay. So you’re already starting to see areas of New York city, certain suburbs of New York city having to go back into some shutdown mode, [00:13:00] because cases are, are starting to spike there.

it’s going to continue to get worse as the, it gets colder and people have to start retreating more indoors. on top of that, We have a presidential election coming up, and this is one of the things that we all hear, yeah. Is this most important election of our lifetime. We hear that every presidential election, by the way.

So don’t be, don’t be fooled that this is the most important because everyone is important. but historically our, in our buyer interest and traffic take a dump. Leading up to the presidential election every year, every single time.

Mollie: Right. And it aligns exactly with COVID it’s uncertainty and something that people don’t like, just really quickly going back to Coby the other.

The thing with COVID is schools. What is happening with schools is really affecting [00:14:00] people and their mindset, because some schools are open, some are hybrid, some are closed. we don’t know what’s happening. So again, that feeling of uncertainty putting the COVID and the illness aside, it’s how it affects your life.

And school is, are a huge part of that.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. So this is, this is the. The thing that we have in front of us, we’ve got all of this stuff that’s happening and it’s, and it’s massive uncertainty. And that’s what typically makes everything go on, pause around a presidential election. Now the other kind of X factor that we have is.

We have this weird PA, we had this pandemic that’s causing this weird surge in housing. Right. Which was unexpected, obviously unexpected. and so that I believe my prediction is it will offset some of that pause that we normally see, but I still am. [00:15:00] Absolutely predicting a softening in the current class I’m at that we already have.

I don’t think it will be as dramatic as what it would be, with a normal presidential election simply because our, I think our industry is being propped up due to the surrender to what it actually is, right. Because of the. Surge in demand.

Mollie: Yeah. I heard locally referred to it as a delayed spring market.

And I think that that’s like a good way to think about it, quite frankly. That’s great for us. So, you know, I agree. I think we’re going to forge ahead in a w. As the housing industry in a way that we wouldn’t necessarily in, during a presidential election and with all, with everything that’s going on. I think what is like the big bright, you know, Blinking lights to me is how do we tap into that from a messaging standpoint?

Because not a, Oh, the market’s good. Let’s let it ride. This is a [00:16:00] very emotional time. This is a very specific time and having the right message. Is more than just about your brand. It’s, you know, remaining part of the conversation and, and remaining in front of people. So I would say without a doubt, this is not the time to be quiet.

This is the time to make sure that your message is on point and that it’s out there.

Matt: And I think what you hit on the nail on the head there when you’re talking about message, because when you talk, what about putting together a campaign or strategy? It doesn’t have to always revolve around, A promotion of gift this or buy this home, right?

Like, cause a lot of, a lot of us are out of inventory homes or, or relatively close, you know, very low. So we’re having to shift that mindset to a presale opportunity, built, build the home. so, and we’re not in a market where we’re really having to. You [00:17:00] shouldn’t be giving anything away. Obviously, there are very specific instances where that is not the case.

and I know there’s never been a bad land purchase in the history of home building. but there are some of those problem chaat children that still exist out there where some extra things I need to be done. So let’s, let’s acknowledge that and put that off to the side before I get some angry emails later that says, what are your crazy?

So. Anyway. but as a whole, we’re not giving things away. We’re not having to run promotions to move product. And so you, we, a lot of times we think, well, what the heck else am I going to talk about? And that’s where Mollie, we start talking about messaging, leading up to some of the most key tip, you know, every four years, a very contentious time layered on top of that, we have a global pandemic.

Mollie: Yeah, I think right now there are some key points that really stick out to me. And a lot of it is it all ties [00:18:00] into messaging. you know, are you going to out shout or outsmart people? And I think the key is, you know, just throwing up some. Images and a headline is not out, is not the smart way to head into 2021 just because of what’s going on in the world.

So like exactly. For example, what you were just talking about with presale, like if you are in a presale position where you don’t have any inventory, you know, you’re looking at 2021. That is a very opt optimistic message. Everyone in the entire world once 2020 to be over. I mean, this is like going to be the year that everyone remembers us the worst ever.

you know, it’s, there are a million memes about 2020. So how do you tap into that sentiment too? Give buyers a feeling of control heading into [00:19:00] 2021. And that word control is really important because I think it’s a human instinct, what to feel in control. And that’s why the presidential election, that’s why.

School closings. That’s why all these things are so unsettling is because you don’t have control. So that is an emotion that into for pre-selling for 2021 is going to be the right strategy to connect with buyers on an emotional level and give them. What it is that they desire that they don’t even necessarily know they desire.

So I don’t think most people would be like, yeah, I really desire control for 2021, but that is deep down what it is. So having those deeper conversations and talking about, about what message is proactive rather than reactive right now. So key. [00:20:00] To you know, fourth quarter and first quarter and, and just setting you up for success for next year.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I hear in 30 minutes from now, I actually have a call to set up with one of our builder partners to talk about gearing up a specific messaging campaign leading into the election, because we want to feel like we’re softening. essentially an escape, right? Like that you think about what home means to people and whenever something bad happens like in your life, what is your in your, in, you’re not physically at your home.

What is the first thing you want to do? You want to go home? Like I need to get home. I’ve heard Meredith, Oliver say this on our builder town hall stuff. So make sure to give her credit for that. She gives us, she gets, talk about nine 11 and what home means. And she’s like, you know, when you first heard and you were like, you were out and you heard about what happened with the world [00:21:00] trade centers, what was the first thing that you want to do?

Like, I forgot. I’ve got to get home because home is the center. Of your life and of your memories and that’s where you feel safe and secure and comfortable. And so, I think that making sure that we’re dialing in and focusing on what that really means, and one of the. A time of great uncertainty that we have every four years is, is really, really smart to be out in front of it.

Mollie: Yeah, I would, I would like for people to think about as we head into holiday messaging and, new year messaging and all of this is let’s as an industry, agree to. Be an industry that brings people together. I mean, home is a place of togetherness and our country is not together right now. We are very split and that is okay.

We know that, most of our builders, your buyers do not [00:22:00] have the same views as you, same with, you know, our sales and marketing people. And. As sales and marketing professionals, how do you overcome that by, by making your messaging place? That is inclusive. and, and really a, a happy message. So like right now, for me, There are a couple of things that have made 20, 20 such a good year for me.

So like all of us are ready for 2020 to be over. But like for example, one of our team members at group two is getting married on Friday. So that’s my shout out to Katie and Brandon. You know, life is still happening. Love is still happening. People are still having babies. Obviously we know people are moving for many, many reasons, the great reshuffling, but there is so much positive.

So what I would say love to see with some of the messaging around the holidays is less of this like heavy, heavy, I think we’re going to see a lot of TV spots [00:23:00] from, from big brands that are, are super heavy around, you know, the election and COVID and all of this. And I think that for most people home is that safe place.

It is that happy place. And we have a very unique opportunity as an industry. To really own that and to have messaging that is happy and secure and builds trust. And, is that positive voice? Does that make

Matt: sense? Yeah, absolutely. And it’s like, almost, you want to go over the top to say. Th by the way, this isn’t a political ad, you know, like, I mean, you want to get somebody’s attention like this.

Cause how inundated are we with political ads? And it’s like, I can’t wait for the election to be over simply to get, to stop being bombarded with random texts, phone calls and ads.

Mollie: Real question right now. This is a marketing question. How in the world do the people who are targeting all this [00:24:00] political stuff?

Not know that I’m already registered to vote. Wait, how is that possible? Like in today’s world, like it’s not a secret that I’m registered to vote, so like, why am I getting 800 ads like that? It just shows like poor targeting.

Matt: Every time I log into Facebook, it prompts me at this massive window registered to vote.

Mollie: What is up? Like, are they the worst marketers ever, or is like, I just don’t get it. Like, it’s like when you get an ad for something that you just bought and you’re kind of like really

Matt: right. Well, and the voter registry is not this super private. Yeah. I mean, that’s public information. I mean, I’m getting bombarded by text messages with, I don’t even know what.

Anyway

Mollie: to send those text messages. I just have to say

Matt: actually, I think, I think it is

Mollie: really annoying. I’m on, I’m apparently on [00:25:00] every list that exists for where everything. So,

Matt: yeah, Amy, she got a text the other day, direct and with the, with our youngest son Hayden’s name in it. And it was like, Hayden, are you registered to vote?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That was, that was pretty funny. He’s 10, by the way.

Mollie: Yeah. Oh

Matt: goodness. Yes. Okay. All right. So that was a little bit of a rabbit trail, but I think the, the, the message for today really is all around. Take a step back. Look at what you’re saying. Look at what your message is. It does not, especially this time of year, it does not have to be by this.

It doesn’t have to be get $2,500 in closing costs, right? Like that doesn’t move the needle. And so, especially, it just becomes white noise. And, and the other thing is you’re about to start getting gum [00:26:00] bombarded early with, like. Black Friday and, all the retail sales, they’re going to start kicking that stuff off earlier this year than they normally do because of the economy.

Right? Well, the part of the economy, the K shaped recovery that we’re in. And so retailers are going to be building lasting us with ads and we don’t want to get lost in the shuffle. We want to stand out. We want to do things that bring meaning to people. I think, I mean,

Mollie: that’s. Yeah. I, to me, that’s a lot of it is like, just like the substance of what we’re putting out there.

And typically it is product or price or, you know, you’re, you’re set, you are selling something, you know, we’re doing well right now as an industry. So right now the opportunity is branded and yeah. I think in our industry, part of why we are not considered the most cutting edge is we don’t fully understand the value of branding.

So what happens is we think, Oh, the market’s [00:27:00] good. We’re doing great. And that means we can stop marketing and that’s, that is not. That is not how any other industry thinks your brand is. This thing that is evolving and is, should always have a voice. And I think our big takeaway is be proactive knowing.

That sentiments are, are strange right now. everyone is looking forward to the new year. Home is a place of safety and, and we can leverage that. and that. If we all builders are not going to have the same message. It depends on if you have inventory. It depends on if you’re pre-selling, it depends on where your, what market you’re building in.

If you have attached housing or detached housing, I mean, there are so many variables that are going to influence your message for this time of year and it just, it takes some thoughtful planning. So [00:28:00] that’s, that’s my big thing. Thoughtful planning.

Matt: I totally agree with that. I don’t even have another big thing.

I’m just gonna like, tack onto that because it is, it is the best thing. It is where we need to be focusing our attention. and not, and less of look at the shiny thing over here, because it’s just going to get lost in the, in the, in the noise that’s out there. And, yeah, I think that. We totally underestimate the continued power of the marketing message.

and we get wrapped up in, well, we don’t have to Mark it and we just shut it off. Yes. If you shut it off, you can turn it back on in today’s digital world and you can be like bottom of the funnel type type, really like Google ads and social and things like that. Yes, you can do that. But it’s still, like you said, we’re, we’re the only industry that thinks really weirdly like that.

Like it’s, Y Y Y

[00:29:00] Mollie: you know, that’s why we kind of get a bad rap like that. We’re so far behind. I will say that this is not new. You have the message and the messenger, and, you know, Google has been saying for a decade, our job as marketers is to show up. That’s the messenger and to show up with the right message, that’s the message that’s going to actually get people to engage.

And I think we, as an industry have become so tactic driven, we are so aware of. Showing up, but we’re, we really lost the message that makes, that really connects with people. And I think, right now, especially when we’re in a branding time, like this is where we should be fine tuning that message that really different.

Matt: I think Mollie, you might fall out of your seat when you hear me say this, but I think that we. We get caught too much up [00:30:00] in our metrics. Right. And I think that’s why w with the shift to digital, right. Everybody there, the assumption is I can track anything and everything I want to, which you can. but. We lose sight like with, with branding and messaging, it’s much harder to have that direct correlation of cause and effect.

It’s a bigger picture, longer term strategy play. That’s going to take, like if you’re trying to create a brand, it’s going to be a three to four. Five year process to really create a notable brand, even as a home builder. And we get caught, you know, I was, I was running the other day and I was thinking about a blog.

Right. Which I think I’m going to probably have to write it now, since I’m talking about it, but it’s like, your metrics are killing you. And the, and the reason is because as I I’m, I’m running, I always check my watch for. My pace, my cadence, my average mile, where my heart rate is where [00:31:00] all of this kind of stuff.

And then the other day I just ran and I still have my watch on, and I was going to track everything at the end, but it was cold in the morning. So I literally like had sleeves down, like tucked over my hands and as I was running, so I couldn’t easily see my watch. so I just ran, I didn’t check it. And when I got back.

Like it was one of my better runs because I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t, as focused on the metric, I was focused on just doing what I kind of trained myself to do instead of every week, looking at my reports every month, looking at my reports and saying, Oh, what do I need to change? What do I need to shift?

Right. And so I think that’s kind of the stark difference between between the messaging side of things and advertising, because we have to draw a line and, and, and. Between the two distinctively.

Mollie: Yeah. No, for me, I mean, I’ve always been driven by the message more so than the messenger, because that is more tactical.

and there that is more like, Cut and dry [00:32:00] when it comes to that message. I, I mean, this is gonna sound so cheesy, but I get inspiration from everywhere. I can go to the grocery store and see something about oranges that resonates with me. And I think about why that resonated with me. So to give you an example, so as I was saying before, so we’ve been spending a lot of time in the Pocono mountains.

And there are all these trails and different things about, you know, around that area. It’s a lot of, being outside and there was a billboard for, one of these destinations of like trails and things like that. And it said adventure packed. And my mind immediately went to housing and I immediately thought of.

A community that has a lot of amenities or a 55 plus community that has all these different things going on and I’m adventure packed and I’m picturing, [00:33:00] you know, The act of moving of packing and boxes. And I almost had this image of like the Mary Poppins hat with all these different activities coming out of it.

Like the walking trails, the biking, hiking, the kayaking, all these different things and how that. One line of adventure packed that had nothing to do with the housing industry. Got me thinking about why that resonated with me and how it could have to do with the housing industry. And I think to me, that’s the fun part of marketing is, is really being inspired from a word, a conversation.

You know, if you’re listening today and there’s one word that we said that makes you think of an idea that makes your time. Well used by listening today. And I think that’s the, I think that’s what is so exciting to me is that ideas come from everywhere and just paying attention and, and finding those little golden [00:34:00] nuggets that you’re able to use that resonate.

Matt: Yeah, totally agree. All right. That is a good place.

Mollie: Yeah. If anyone wants to do this adventure packed campaign, give us a call because I literally just made that up and I think it would be awesome for a community with a lot of amenities.

Matt: Oh, my gosh. I even see, you could create a graphic of there’s a box and people are packing up, but you’re, they’re actually packing up like word bubble, like words in the air.

Like whether it’s, whatever the thing is, it’s the excitement of moving and they’re putting that in the box or they’re their memories like Johnny’s fifth birthday and they’re putting it in the box and picking it up. Let’s see, there you go. There’s your, there’s your free tidbit of the day. Alright, awesome.

Okay. I have a meeting to get to an eight minutes and then I actually have a second podcast recording later today with our friends from. Box brownie. So this episode will air [00:35:00] first and then the box brownie episode. So, be learning about all the cool stuff that they’ve, they’ve got going on, if you haven’t heard of them before, check them out.

So, anyway, thanks so much guys for joining us today and, you know, off we go. Have a great week.